They're both explosive, strong upside, leaders in the making...hmmm Chise plays West, Davis in the East...so Chise wins b/c I'm biased and the fact that Houston caned the East. ------------------ Your best? Loser whine about thier best.
Baron will never have the upside of Steve Francis. His assists are better because he is dishing to Mashburn. Who can Steve dish to? Pratically nobody. Wait until the Rockets improve their front court and see where Francis assists numbers go!! ------------------
probably doesn't matter in real games, but francis also held his own against vince carter in the dunk contest. davis said he was gonna win and then miss that god awful blindfolded dunk. ------------------
November 16, 2000: Rockets 84 Hornets 80 Francis - 39 min, 13 pts, 7 rebs, 6 assts, 3 TO, 35% FG, 2 stls Davis - 43 min, 20 pts, 8 rebs, 4 assts, 4 TO, 53% FG, 3 stls January 27, 2001: Rockets 110 Hornets 97 Francis - 36 min, 20 pts, 2 reb, 10 assts, 2 TO, 50% FG Davis - 39 min, 6 pts, 2 reb, 12 assts, 2 TO, 25% FG, 3 stls It appears that Davis played better in their first matchup, but not by a great deal. Francis had a tough night shooting, but still had a 2-1 Asst:TO ratio, while Davis focussed more on scoring that night. The real difference was in the second matchup, when Francis showed that he can score points just like Davis, but also get his teammates involved at the same time. That is the important difference, in my opinion. Davis can score, but he has difficulty getting his points in the normal flow of the offense. He must choose between scoring, or getting his teamates involved. Francis can do it all, every single night. You have to love him for that. I'd take Francis over Davis any day of the week. ------------------ Feeling claustrophobic, like the walls are closing in. Blood stains on my hands, and I don't know where I've been. I'm in trouble for the things I haven't got to yet. I'm chomping at the bit, and my palms are getting wet. Sweating Bullets Runnin', Ravin', Endin', Out. [This message has been edited by RunninRaven (edited June 21, 2001).]
Baron is a solid player, and will more than likely be an all-star (reserve) in the not too distant future. The thing that I think separates Franchise from Davis (other than being more explosive on the offensive end) is the way that Steve has taken control of this team. He is now the heart and soul of this club and (maybe out of necessity) he was able to grab that title in such a short time frame with a somewhat lackluster supporting cast around him. Baron had the luxury of having several quality players around him to help him along. But then again I guess Steve had quite possibly the greatest damn athlete of our time...Matt Bullard Thanks Matt....for everything ------------------ ALL YOUR BASE ARE BELONG TO US
Haven, I am curious if you or anyone else actually would toe the line and say that if YOU were a GM you would pick Davis over Francis. I cannot imagine such a GM would be employed for long. ------------------
Hayesstreet: Well, since I made the case in my first post that Francis is better than Davis... ------------------ Lacking inspiration at the moment...
Francis is much better at this point, but they have similar athleticism, but Baron's lack of consistency on his jumpshot hurts him. If he develops a jumpshot(he is 3 years younger thatn Francis), you better watch out. Watching him and Francis go at it will be a lot of fun. Overall, I think he has the fourth best upside in the '99 draft behind Odom, Francis, and Marion. ------------------ "I look kind of dumpy. Look at my butt. And what kind of shoes do they have me wearing? At least they got the chinstrap beard right." -Kevin Garnett on the KG bobblehead dolls during KG bobblehead doll night at the Target Center
I remember a lot of experts said the '99 draft was weak. The first 4 picks are already among the league's elite players in only 2 years! And that's not even counting Jonathan Bender, Wally Z and Marion. ------------------ If you have nothing nice to say, say it anyway.
Funny you should mention that, Wink. I think the '99 class is without question the strongest in the past 6 or 7 years, and I challenge anyone to name a better one in that time frame. ------------------ "We're having a pretty good time considering one day we're all going to die." Steve Martin, 1976
You could also twist it and say Francis Rebounds would have been lowered if we had guys like Elden Campbell , Jamaal MaGloire , Derrick Coleman up front rebounding . I think Baron Davis is an explosive player and it was right of Charlotte to pick him at #3 . No one gives Baron as high of praise as Marion because at #3 alot was expected of him , as was Francis at #2 . The Top 5 Players in that draft were Francis Marion Davis Brand Odom ------------------
moestavern: you think that Davis is better than Odom? Davis is alright, but Odom is more of a complete package than any player since Grant Hill. The guy can play 4 positions (3 of them well), defend, pass, score, shoot jumpers, drive to the hoop, anything. If I could have one player from the 99 class... it'd be Odom, not Francis. I don't think that Clipper team's going to win until they get some players that don't belong at the 2-3 spots... but Odom's going to be a superstar. Hope I'm wrong, and that Francis turns out better... but Odom's younger and more versatile. And taller . ------------------ Newbiehad... coming to a bbs near you, October 31st. [This message has been edited by haven (edited June 23, 2001).]
The 1996 class was pretty darn good. You've got Iverson at the top of the class. The dynamic duo of forwards that followed him with Marcus Camby and Shareef Abdur-Rahim aren't bad. And neither are the dynamic guards that followed them in the draft with Stephon Marbury and Ray Allen. Antoine Walker with 3 All-Star appearances. Kobe Bryant at the end of the lottery. Predrag Stojakovic isn't a bad consolation prize. Neither is Jermaine O'Neal. I believe Kerry Kittles was the 7th or 8th pick. He was a nice young player before the injuries. I think the 96 draft was much better than the 99 draft. But at the time, a lot of pundits were claiming how the 99 draft was going to be terrible. And in retrospect, I think it turned out to be a lot better than anyone expected. ------------------
Brand, Francis, Davis, Odom, Szczerbiak, Hamiliton, Miller, Artest, Marion, Terry, Posey, Thomas, to name the ones who come to mind. ------------------ The world is divided into two groups of people: Those who try to divide everyone into two groups, and those who don't.
I don't see how that stacks up to the 1996 class. Brand, Francis, Davis, Odom, and Marion are the only ones that are almost locks to be future all-stars. Hamilton and Szczerbiak fall in the second category of major contributors on playoff caliber teams with some All-star potential. Terry and Thomas are just good role players to me. Posey still remains to be seen. With Iverson, we are talking about the MVP. Marcus Camby will probably land an All-Star bid in the future and was the most valuable player last year on a playoff-bound Knicks team. Shareef has a Dream team membership under his name. Ray Allen is both a Dream teamer and an All-Star. Stephon Marbury = All-Star. Antoine Walker has 3 All-star appearances under his name. And it should also be noted that he made the mid-season classic team in his 2nd season, something that every player in the 1999 class failed to do. Predrag is a future All-Star. And last but not least, Kobe Bryant. Whether you love him or hate him, he is a future hall of famer and he'll probably be an MVP before it is all said and done. Hell the 1995 class is a better class than the 1999 class. They had a total of 6 players in this past All-Star game. Garnett, McDyess, Wallace, Ratliff, Stackhouse, and Finley. Point is with the 1999 class, it exceeded expectations. But I wouldn't dare rank it as the top class in the last 6 years. If I had to rank the the last 6 drafts from top to bottom in talent, it probably go in this order. 1. 1996 class - For the reason above. 2. 1995 class - Provided 6 all-stars, Damon Stoudemire, and little else. 3. 1998 class - Carter, Jamison, Nowitzki, Pierce, Mobley, LaFrentz, Wells, Bibby, Dickerson, Lewis.... A lot of potential All-Stars with a good mix of major playoff caliber contributors. 4. 1999 class - Outside of the big 5, this class offers little promise. 5. 1997 class - Duncan and McGrady are top notch players. Van Horn and Mercer showed early promise, but have failed to deliver. Almost every other promising member of the class has disappointed their original teams and have been traded in their 1st or 2nd years. 6. 2000 class - Offered the weakest rookie crop since both, the respective '88 and '89 class. ------------------ [This message has been edited by Da Man (edited June 23, 2001).]
I think Davis is that Explosive , Odom Could be the next Scottie Pippen but for Baron Davis to leave College so early and be this good at his positition while he is still so young is a scary thought towards his future , Shawn Marion also showed he should have been a top 5 pick . In every draft there is always a Robert Traylor or a Michael Olowakandi , and then there is a Cuttino Mobley and a Rashard Lewis ------------------
Steve came in as a rookie and played right away, learning the league the hard way, while Davis sat on the bench. This season, with a full year under his belt, Francis asserted himself as the leader of his team and a challenger to Payton and Kidd as the best point guard in the league. Davis, however, gradually worked his way off the bench to the point where he was averaging 40 min. a game and putting up similar numbers to Francis. The difference is, Francis is the leader of a young, inexperienced team trying to find itself while Davis is at best the 2nd or 3rd best player on a veteran team behind Mashburn and Wesley. He is just a cog who can blend in on the court and just play rather than carrying the additional responsibility of setting the tone for his team. Guys like Wesley, P.J. Brown, and Mashburn lead that team, and Davis has openly credited Wesley with mentoring him in his first year so that he would be ready to contribute this year. Francis, on the other hand, had to learn the NBA on the fly with no guidance from a veteran PG. Sure, Charles helped him out with advice now and then, but Charles has no insight on how to run a team and keep everybody around him happy (just ask Clyde the Glide). But Steve took his lumps last year and returned this year a much better decision-maker and much a more poised example for his teammates. Most coaches agree that the biggest transition from talented player to true superstar occurs between the 2nd and 3rd years. I believe Francis is ready to take that step next year, but I'm not sure about Davis. He has only played significantly for one year, so I'm betting Francis will leap over him, as well as Payton and Kidd, to become an All-Star and the undisputed best Point Guard in the game. It will be interesting to see where this debate is after next year, but my guess is comparisons between Francis and Davis will have ended and new comparisons between Francis and Oscar, Cousy, and the greatest of all time will have already begun. ------------------
Milos, you the man. Good analysis throughout. ------------------ The world is divided into two groups of people: Those who try to divide everyone into two groups, and those who don't.
