Again, you're comparing Francis to a shoe-in hall of famer to make your argument: that's simply not fair. The fact remains, you can take away athleticism from a lot of NBA stars and have them be average players. What's Tracy McGrady without his athleticism? or Shawn Marion? You can see Tracys' slipping now, though he still has some left. He can't turn the corner as well anymore, which in time will cause opposing teams to not double on drives. Then all you have is a below average field goal percentage. Stockton was one of the few guys who thrived without athleticism -- and there aren't very many, if any, left over. No, Francis was never a "true" PG, but he still averaged 6-7 assist over the span of his career. He certainly was never a bad PG. People always look for reasons to complain. If we had Kobe on this team, we would have threads about why he isn't doing MORE. That's a common thing with fans -- always want more. To me, Francis' problem was he got hurt and never really got back into shape. Basketball seems to have taken a backseat to family and other issues with him, not that there isn't anything wrong with that. But if he can get back into shape, I have no doubt in my mind he would be the best PG on the team (being a PG is more than just distributing the ball, or else Knight would be one of the elite PGs in the league). He showed glimpses of it last year (Suns game), before going down with the season ending injury. I'm not expecting a contribution from him this year, but if he's there and in shape, it will be huge.
With the exception of Mobley, Francis was a reluctant passer, especially when it was an assist. If you watched every game and analysed them you would have noticed that he was most reluctant to pass especially to Yao Ming.If you are refering to the time before Yao Ming was selected by the Rockets. you are correct. But wrong when it came to the Yao Ming era. Steve was the King of Dribblemania
Yao Ming couldn't even stand up without falling down for longer than 20 seconds his rookie year, and all the Chinese posters started crying foul that he wasn't getting the majority of touches. Francis/Mobley were then forever labeled as "not willing to pass to Yao". Nevermind that in the biggest game of the year, it was Francis' drive and assist to Yao that sealed the game. Please actually watch the team game and not your one-player fan bias. Yao wasn't ready to be the leader his rookie year. Nor his sophomore year. Nor his third year when Tracy arrived. Yao has just recently began to take on a leadership role -- the problem is he hasn't been able to stay on the court long enough to fully come into it. Despite what many Chinese posters thought at the time, Francis wasn't traded so Yao could develop. He was traded because Tracy McGrady was a hell of a lot better than him.
Now, that's the truth about that situation. You can blame Steve of many things, including overdribbling/turnovers, but his assists have always been pretty high. He is a willing passer, he just doesn't make the smartest choices as a PG all the time.
I keep coming back to this thread to attempt to find an actual UPDATE on Francis condition. I wish this thread would just go away and be replaced with one with some useful information.
True! I am a Chinese, and Yao is great, but there were a lot of turnovers from Yao's touch when Francis tried to pass to him. Francis is a willing passer, but the early stage Yao had issue catching the ball and playing post.
Actually, I can't believe this thread is still alive today like it is. I'm really not counting on Francis to even be with the team at the end of next season and the playoffs if he is on the roster come opening night. For the most part, I say that he is done, period.
I've made a similar assessment, and it's based on a disappointing past season along with a healthy measure of pessimism. I'm excited enough about the season without considering Francis as part of the plans. If he does become an impact player for us, that's a bonus.
Well said. I'm hearing just a little too much glee in the tone of some people around here when they give their doomsday medical opinion on Francis.
Same with me too. Actually, why not base it on his past few seasons prior to last? Also, how about the fact that he has never helped a team in his playing career go deep into the playoffs? Based on that fact, I don't see why we should count on him to do something like that for the Rockets this upcoming season.
When you open up with such a ridiculous BS statement... it makes anything else you have to say uncredible.
Who are you talking about here. . .cause that description can work for our BIG TWO as well. Rocket River
He was willing, but he loved to dribble out the clock. Sometimes, there was no clock to dribble out. Other times, he would try to take it into the paint with 3 defenders in his way. His 4+ turnover games would end up losing 10-20 games for us every year. He had the 4th worst ast/to ratio for all point guards in his last year with Houston. Most of the other PGs had teams that were just as bad as the Rockets. Fourteen of the other 29 teams don't even make the playoffs. ESPN 2003-04 Ast/TO rankings
Apparently, Rockets management knows something you don't. How many of those other PGs were counted on to be their team's #1 scoring option as well? During his first go-round with the Rockets, Steve was always the primary option and was never expected to be a traditional PG. Same with his stint with the Magic. Not so much while he was with the Knicks, but that situation was so surreal it shouldn't really be counted as NBA experience.
Actually, last season, the last couple of games, he scored 20+. And he scored 20+, even when his quad was screwed up. I'm guessing last season, it got worsened and it had to be fixed. Thus, he had surgery. Now, there are only few "(borderline)stars" that didn't lead their team far into the playoffs. (That are still playing) And by far, I'm guessing you mean advancing to the 2nd round and up. Let me list them. 1. Your favorite, Steve Francis. 2. Carmelo Anthony 3. Chris Bosh 4. Grant Hill 5. Andre Iguodala 6. Al Jefferson 7. Stephon Marbury 8. Emeka Okafor (He didn't even went to the playoffs) 9. Zach Randolph 10. Michael Redd 11. Brandon Roy (He didn't even went to the playoffs) 12. Josh Smith I think I'm forgetting important players... Oh ya. 13. Tracy McGrady 14. Yao Ming All these players (according to your post) are useless and their teams shouldn't count on them. Base off of your post, I suggest we trade T-Mac and Yao. How about... Yao Ming for Chris Kaman. Tracy McGrady for Rashard Lewis. And of course, we are not even sure that the Magic and Clippers will trade those winners for our losers. We might have to add draft picks or cash. Cause, why would they trade for these players that you can't count on.
I think that the 2010 offseason will be the time Daryl Morey ends up deciding to take the team on to a new direction if the Rockets still end up having the same results for the next two seasons like what we have been seeing for the past 11. I feel that as far as the upcoming 2008-09 season is concerned, let's just hope that the addition of Ron Artest to go along with T-Mac and Yao will make a big difference, and enable the Rockets to go deeper in the playoffs than what we have been seeing.
there really should just be a separate thread if all we're gonna do is debate whether or not steve should be counted on for production/will he produce/etc. anyone got new pics ... ? updates?
If we could get 12-14 solid minutes from Francis per game I'd be happy. I don't expect him to be Chris Paul or even Rafer. I just want someone that can play D and not be a liability on offense. Assuming Steve comes back healthy, I don't think this is too much to ask from him. He may even surprise us - hopefully... I'm still not convinced that Brooks is the man. However, only 2 more months till training camp. Man I can't wait!
Of course. The last couple of seasons have been a waste of time. By now, we could have gotten many young talent. If they were healthy, and both didn't live up to expectation, we would have at least traded Tracy for cap relief/young players/ draft picks. And we would have been in rebuilding mode and gotten a high pick for last season's draft. Which included, Kevin Durant and Greg Oden. Oh well, I just think, by adding just Ron Artest (and Barry... I guess) we shouldn't have our hopes high. That we just need to expect everything to go well (which includes Francis, cause a Rafer/Brooks/Barry/Head lineup will not do it, imo) to finally win a ring.
