The bottom line is that without his athleticism Steve Francis is a below average basketball player. He was never a high BBall IQ guy, but was someone that could flat out beat you with speed, quickness, and hops. If he has lost those forever, then his career is basically done. The key will be whether or not his athleticism is back, and whether or not Francis is working hard to get it back. He is only 31, and should be at his athletic peak, for a couple more years.....but that is ALL ON HIM.... Because Steve Francis without athleticism is a marginal NBA player.... DD
Basketball IQ - the most overused bull***** term in all of sports Just another thing created for no other reason to a new way to dog out a player someone didn't like to begin with. Rocket River
So, you're saying that every basketball player in the NBA (or any league) has the same understanding of the game of basketball?
I think Van gundy or someone made up the word a few years back and everyone saying it like it LAW If they don't like a basketball player or 'how' he plays or whatever . . . [esp considering most folx on here never played on that high a level to sit and make su they simply throw out the good ole ambigous LOW BASKETBALL IQ which goes back to the Crap Stereotype that NBA players are dumb, thuggish, etc It is a bunch of Houey!!! Rocket River
Well, I don't think that's the barrier. It's his physical health. If that's good, he'll be ahead of brooks - there no doubt about it. He's just a better player. He has the heart, it's a question of if the body will co-operate.
I think you could say that with more than half the basketball players in the league. I don't think it's fair you single out Francis for this.. you can have all the athleticism in the world, but you still need the skill. Athleticism doesn't make those circus layups Francis always did. Athleticism doesn't make the clutch threes he would hit. You might wanna re-think that stance.
Absolutely not. This thread is a discussion about Francis...that is why he is singled out. You know why Stockton played so long and was so efficient....BBall IQ..... The same for Kareem, while their athleticism waned they could still compete at a high level because they understood the game better than most. Francis has never been a high BBall IQ player, never been a guy who saw things developing on the floor and made the pass on the anticipation of the play. Once Francis loses his athleticism, and I have been saying this for years....his career is over. UNLESS he somehow develops the mindset needed to succeed without freakish athleticism...and that is fairly rare, not many players have made that transition from great athlete to quick thinker... If Francis still has his athleticism, he can help a lot, if not, he is probably just riding out his contract here in Houston. DD
River, you know better than that, you are letting your bias get the best of you, there certainly IS B-Ball IQ.....Magic had it, Bird, Kareem, Jordan, Nash, Stockton, Barkley, Malone, Duncan, Manu, Tmac, Scola..... And I have been saying that long before JVG even coached this team......LONG before. Tons of players see the floor and react to the situation as it is developing, Francis did some of that WITH THE BALL IN HIS HANDS, as a scorer, but if he can't do that anymore....ie lost his athleticism....he is done. DD
Steve is capable...of at least having Kenny Smith type BB IQ... The key is enjoyment of the simple play. Steve has been emotional guy on the court all his life...whenever he makes an and1 play his home boys would ooh and ahh and play to Steve's emotions...so he kept on doing it without honing of the key fundamental PG stuff...stuff that Chris Paul does all the time...pick & roll...drive and dish without jumping and leaving your feet...I wish Steve would look at Chris Paul play...
BS stockton is a SYSTEM PG Eisley looked all world in that system .. . he left utah and he was exposed if Stockton would have left SAMETHING even with less athleticism he was the tallest player in the league surround by probably some of the biggest talents of the time Anticipation is about plays and practice When in houston . . .there was not a TON of Plays to run beyond that once you got the AURA about you . . .you get beyond mistakes If stockton threw a passaway . . folx attributed to the other guy being out of position beyond Stockton just *****ing up magic got the same grace LeBron is getting it . . .Kobe gets it somewhat If some lesser player does the exact same play it is considered a 'basketball iq error' I'd be shocked to see a reference to Basket Ball IQ that was over 4 to 5 yrs old. I could be wrong. . . Rocket River
The Reaction is a two part process You and the other guy . . .if you not both on the same page you can have all the 'basketball iq' you want .. it won't work. [I won't even address the special-ness the refs give some players *cough* jordon *cough*] Only Bias I have with Steve Francis is becuase someone has to stand up for him with the over whelming about amount of PURE UNDILUTED HATRED he gets around here I won';t say he my favorite player . .. but they guy played with HEART in a time this team needed If you not down with the rockets in the down years TAKE YA FRONT RUNNING *SSES ON!!! [No You DaDa . .but some of these others ] I remember alot of LEAN years and I still don't see any rocket getting *****ted on as much as Francis so yea DaDa . . I will stand up for the guy he left it on the court he pour his heart out and did every thing he could .. . he fought for this club and I just won't forget his contribution to Rocket lore and history Rocket River
Low BBall IQ is not made up, it's just a nice way of saying that a player is dumb. Steve was dumb, he made a lot of poor decisions, that was his main problem, not his skillset IMO. "System pg" and "aura to protect a player" sound made up.
Whether you agree with a term or not Stevie was a poor decision maker who had the ball in his hands entirely too much. Your comparison to Isiah in the other thread shows that you're a bit biased to say the least. I always liked Francis's effort and never doubted his will to win, just his understanding of what it took to do so.
Francis just does what he wants to do on the court. I don't think his IQ is that low. There is a difference in making ignorant decisions and stupid decisions... his decision making at times under JVG was more stupid imo
I happen to believe strongly in players that are quick thinkers....intelligence has nothing to do with it. It is about seeing something on the floor and thinking quickly enough to react or take advantage of it. I don't think Steve is dumb, just that he developed a game that suited him best.....one of freakish athleticism..... Now the question is....if that athleticism is gone...or severly diminished, can he now develop another part of his game, one that he has NEVER USED BEFORE.... Cutting off the ball, being a set shooter, making a solid pass to a cutter in the lane on time and in a position that makes it easier for the player to score? River, I agree he left his heart out on the floor, and played hard every single night, sometimes with MIGRAINES....I admire him for that.......but dude....that was 5+ years ago......I call it like I see it.......this is 2008.......and if the guy can not fly......then IMHO, I think he is done. DD
what does being a set shooter have with to do with 'basketball iq' that is a skill ... not a intelligence thing that was never his game. I've seen him make some very nice passes again . .more of a skill than a IQ thing There are various skills that he 'could' develope skills that he has not used [i.e. being a set shooter . . .how many set shooters are in the nba?] but I think he is a decent Passer and a Decent shooter Steve will surprise not only you . . but everyone If he doesn't then I will let it rest but I think he got it in him Rocket River
You know that if he does I will be right there screaming my head off for him. Anything that helps this team win I am all aboard for......I am rooting for him, I just have my doubts. At the end of the day, we are just going to have to wait.....tell you what, I am rooting to be wrong... DD
