Like someone stated in another thread - anyone have the cliff notes to this guys ramblings ------------------ Now introducing the starting lineup for your Houston Rockets: Starting at Center from Wake Forest - TIM DUNCAN
V_Dude, To say that MJ is a classy guy and to say that Francis is not cannot be done without the most distorted remembrance of history. Calling Stockton classy makes your argument even less valid. He is one of the dirtiest guys in the NBA. It's not really his fault it's the system he plays in. The whole team is dirty, and will continue to be. If he were taller and played PF, his name would be J.R. Reid. You talk about trash talking. MJ trash talked, AND even dogged his own teammates, especially the less athetically gifted ones. I doubt you watched the trash talking incident with Payton, because if you did you would see that Payton was being a total ******* that game. He was trying as hard as he could to intimidate Steve. You talk about flagrant fouls. The ones you named were all bogus calls except the Dallas one. The other fouls he did go for the ball, and yes I DID see them, and the many replays. The draft situation was unfortunate, I agree. But, why did the organization that you root for want to draft such a classless guy? Would you still have considered him classless had he played his rookie contract out and then left? The guy TOLD the Grizzlies that he did not want to play for them. I think they did anyway, knowing that they would trade for him. You guys didn't exactly get raped in the deal. You complained about Steve MOUTHING the words "F___ YOU VANCOUVER". But, did he say them? Or were the only people who got offend the lip readers? Also, you yourself said that Francis did this after the Grizz fans threw tomatoes and batteries at him. Regardless of whether it was the same game or the next he did it as a reaction to the way he was treated in the past. You even say that Francis could in the future become a classy guy. Well, most of us who have watched him think he's well on his way. What then is standing in his way? YOUTH... He's young, he's brash. Give him time to mature. I am not the biggest most blind fan of Francis. I see the weaknesses in his game. I see the areas he needs to improve on. BUT, what I don't see is a classless player. ------------------ I have a dream.........his name's Hakeem.
I could argue every single one if these and prove you wrong, but I don't have time for that. I just want to say one thing. The flagrant fouls called on him this year (especially against Denver and Toronto) were point blank the biggest bs calls I have ever seen in my entire life. Francis was going for all ball. ALL BALL. And I liked how you conveniently left out one detail. The NBA overturned the call when he supposedly "clotheslined" Carter. It takes a really bad call for the NBA to completely reverse it the next day. That time they did. Why? Because it was bs, like the other flagrant fouls. ------------------ Come back Popeye!!!
pick Carter instead of Bibby and you have Shareef Carter Francis Obviously your teams BBS sucks, so you have to find something better. sure thing Dreamer! [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 31, 2000).]
C'mon heypartner, edit that. Sorry, I didn't mean to jump on you or anything.... I didn't have a problem with any of the content in your post. I'm not an Admin, so I couldn't do anything about it if I did. What I was talking about was how uneccessarily long the post was. I don't mind the "ha ha"s or the tomatoes. Just how much extra scrolling I have to do. [This message has been edited by DREAMer (edited June 01, 2000).]
They wouldn't give HP the posting credit he craves for an edit. Mango ------------------ Live long and prosper. Donate Blood!
The Cat: If you can argue on every one of the points, then do so. Otherwise, don't bother saying that you can. HeyPartner: I am not going to make fun of you, although it would be pretty easy to do so. Obviously you don't represent the majority of intelligent Houston fans, so I forgive you. Look at everything you are saying. The Rockets could have drafted Jordan. Whos laughing now? NIKEstrad: Right, and I never said Payton was a classy guy. Payton obviously is one of the top 2 point guards in this league, I never said he was classy. About the Vancouver negative media attention. Actually the only real negative stuff came continuously for about one week after he was drafted and traded. The only other times they even report about Francis is after the Grizzlies meet with Houston, and usually it isn't negative, just reporting what happened and the other stuff. I got all my info/links as you can see from NBA.com which are always very unbiased. As for no role models being in the game of the NBA, I would disagree. There are countless NBA players that really give back a whole lot to the commutity. Not only do they volunteer, but they rarely talk trash, or argue calls, or get technicals or otherwise. Name another 6'2 1/2 shooting guard that is not named Iverson? Easy. Dumars. Joe Dumars and Isiah Thomas were the dual tandem that led the Pistons to mulitple NBA titles. Those two were one of the best backcourts in the NBA then. As for wanting to be closer to his Grandmother, tell me something. How close do you think Houston is from Washington? Do you think his Grandmother his a hop skip and a jump away? DREAMer: Tell me when do you think Stockton gets technicals, do flagrant fouls or gets ejected from the game. Sure he flops, and he gets calls his ways, but that doesn't mean he is not classy. If cals were to not go his way, he wouldn't be drawing technicals or otherwise. Stockton has never done gang symbols ordering a hit on anyone. Stockton has never refused to play in Utah, making fun of the state. Stockton has never whined about another team being dirty. He has never left Utah for more money. He just plays within the rules, and thus exudes classiness. As for MJ, a lot has been said about MJ and his personality. I have seen the book "Jordan Rules" and thus know he has a darker personality to him. He had a gambling problem, he had an ego problem, but towards the end of his career, he always acted as a classy man. This is not to say he has always been classy, only that the man he is now is class. When the Grizzlies drafted Francis, Stu had asked the Maryland coach about Francis and got nothing but praises. So, as far as when we drafted him, the Grizzlies thought there were getting a quality guy both on and off the court. That is where we went wrong. As for Steve mouthing F-U Vancouver, you need to go back to my original post and hit the links to the stories. In them, you will see exactly what happened and the cirumstances in which they happened. Just because fans threw tomatoes onto the floor (it didn't come close to hitting Francis) in a previous games justifies Francis swearing at the crowd in another game? Wow, that is news to me. Even if you can justify that to be the case, how can you claim that is the actions of a classy individual? I never said Francis was classless. I said he wasn't classy. THERE IS A DIFFERENCE. ------------------
SkyPilot-Shh!! Payton still isn't exactly a Backstreet, err choir boy himself though. ------------------ Rockets fans wanted at hoopsboards.com Draft Chat, NBA Chat, Team Chat, and more!
partner has no class, he won't edit that. I don't understand why people just won't admit that Francis has been pretty classless up to this point. It's not like you can't like the Rockets and admit this. Maxwell had no class, yet everyone cheered him. John Lucas was a druggie. Same with Lew Lloyd, Mitch Wiggins. Ralph Sampson tried to beat up a midget. Charles Barkley practiced midget tossing, spit on fans, slammed teammates in the media. People still cheered these guys. Rudy T was arrested for DWI. Pippen's not classy, I still wanted him on the team. They're just basketball players people, nothing more, nothing less. Oh, and DREAMer, John Stockton is one of the classiest individuals to ever play. I challenge you to find proof that he's not. Please, take off the Rocket-colored glasses people. It's quite annoying. ------------------ "Yes, I came from the 80s...but I didn't kill anybody. Give me a break." -Mike Tramp, former lead singer of White Lion
Here are some facts that can proven by me. These are experiences that I have had with Steve. I know Steve. I've talked with him many times. He's a confident cat. He's very gracious. Overall, he's a good guy. This is not from what I've read and this is not from what I've heard or seen on TV. I judge him from these experiences and I can honestly say that I really like him. Has he ever made a mistake?? Gosh, I hope so. Everything in his body was telling him that his dream to play for Chicago is about to come true and then someone drops an absolute bomb on him? And you think that this rookie MUST maintain his composure no matter what? NONE of us can even stand being cut off on the freeway!!!...much less encounter a life changing disappointment. I don't care how beautiful the skyline is, I wouldn't want to play in VC either. Why? Because I'm an individual with my own set of desires, beliefs and values. Maybe he made a mistake by the way he handled some things he did. So what? Pick up the Bible and read where it talks about not pointing out the splinter in someone elses eye when you have a log in your own eye! I can't stand judgemental people!! I can't stand it! Have I ever been judgemental? Of Course!! It's called a mistake. We are still allowed to make them, correct?? Anyway, that's my rant! I can't believe that I responded to that thread, even if it was very well written. Steve's going to be fine. Kaiser Sose and myself go back underground...and POOF!!! They were gone... ------------------ Wait, there is another...
Vancouver DUde- Obviously you seem mad that Steve won rookie of the year and is the CENTER OF ATTENTION alot, I can see how you feel. But you need to watch your mouth , DUDE, you just messed with the DEVIL(HeyPartner) and that is a "NO, NO",!!! ------------------ President of the Moochie Norris FAN CLUB
So if a person tries to hit you, but he misses...you have no right to say anything back? And don't tell me those tomatoes "weren't even close." The fans were trying to hit him, period. The fact that they missed makes no difference at all. I too agree with some of your points made, but please don't try to use everything you can come up with as "proof" that he's not a classy guy. That just dilutes your argument. I would say more, but I've go no time. Hopefully tomorrow if the topic's still alive... ------------------ Nederland 2000 NBA+stupidity=Brand ROY NBA+common sense=Franchise MVP Houston Rockets Space Center- Not just another ClutchCity.NET clone. We're that and more!
Francis3: You obviously didn't read my original post, so I won't bother replying to yours. I have said nothing but good things about Francis' talent. Ace: Yes, and the first punch was by Francis when he made those coments about all of Vancouver. Why do you think the fans brought the oranges? Have Vancouver fans ever been violent towards someone who doesn't say anything about them? DocRocket: I find it almost amusing that you are using the Bible to defend Francis. Tell me what the Bible has said about the actions he has done so far. You don't like judgmental people? That of course if your perogative, but, I'm sure if someone you loved was hurt (like having a crime commited against them) you would want a judge to prosecute that person. Saying you don't like judgmental people is basically forfeiting your right to due process. ------------------
Man--it's 10:15, and I should be thinking about going to bed, but for some reason, I have this urge to pull out my "Usual Suspects" DVD. I think I will. Here's to you, Doc. ------------------ stop posting my damn signature
Vancouver Dude I don't think you get...you think you're special...but you're like the 10th vancouver fan who has started the very same tiresome thread. you are way late and ... I will give you more classless frustration, until you show a personality. And, I got some tomatoes for you. Sorry Dreamer...but he asked for come classlessness.... <font color="dedfdf"> . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 31, 2000).]
DocRocket: I find it almost amusing that you are using the Bible to defend Francis. AWESOME, because I laughed out loud at your post!! Now I feel bad because I wasn't as funny as you..." Two girls walk into a bar..." I used the Bible to describe my content for people who judge others. You CAN NOT speak as an expert on Steve when you do NOT know Steve himself. You're relying on the media, the print, and other sources' interpretation of the situation to determine your feelings toward him. ___________________________________ Tell me what the Bible has said about the actions he has done so far. Well, a question mark goes after that sentence but, since I am college educated, I recognize a question when I see one. The Bible does not speak of Steve Francis...as talented as he is. However, the Bible does talk of forgiveness and Steve did publicly apologize for mishandling himself...or did you forget to add that to your post??? ________________________________ You don't like judgmental people? That of course is your perogative, but, I'm sure if someone you loved was hurt (like having a crime commited against them) you would want a judge to prosecute that person. __________________________________ I TAKE IT ALL BACK!! I didn't know that Steve kicked someone's ASS in your family. Come to Houston..we'll resolve this with Steve. I can't believe he flashed a gang sign and had someone killed!! YIKES!!! Who was hurt by his actions..or were you again just speaking hypothetically?? ________________________________________ Saying you don't like judgmental people is basically forfeiting your right to due process. What in the 'Hayull' does that mean? I've never forfeited anything in my life much less my, as you say, 'due process.' Steve's a fine guy and I'm sorry that you have this idea of who he is but I can tell you that I believe you to be incorrect! ------------------ Wait, there is another...
CONTEMPT...not content. So much for talking about the content of a topic and then changing direction in midstream to talk about my contempt for something.. WITNESS!!!! My first mistake as a human... ------------------ Wait, there is another...
heypartner: More tomatoes!!! 1 1/2 hours to go - you will not make the magic number. You lose. I agree with everyone here that Dream should play another season so that he may go out in style. I do not, however, feel that we should trade Moochie for Tim Duncan - that might hurt team chemestry. Am I missing anything? Dude-something? Batteries? Bible? Devil? Oh well, I am sure you all understand. ------------------ rimbaud post-a-thon 2000
Doc Rocket Awesome It is only judgemental because the guy insists upon it which eliminates ignorance and naivity. Vancouver Dude, drop your reasoning which bares judgemental color in Doc's first take on you, and mine. The only way out, is to tell us something about yourself,,,your personality, and how you come to reason like this. Don't give us anymore ignorances. You have a long way to go to show us something. And that begins with speaking about yourself... Not a 21 yr old Steve Francis. Take your didactic dribbling back home until you are ready to show some true face on this best bball bbs of the internet. Reason does not mean anything when your reason is built off of your own experience and you refuse to share that experience. who cares. [This message has been edited by heypartner (edited May 31, 2000).]
"AWESOME, because I laughed out loud at your post!! Now I feel bad because I wasn't as funny as you..."" Good, I am here to amuse. Don't feel bad though. I hate when people get upset. "You CAN NOT speak as an expert on Steve when you do NOT know Steve himself. You're relying on the media, the print, and other sources' interpretation of the situation to determine your feelings toward him." Right. I never said I was speaking as an expert on Steve. My posts are that of my opinion. In no shape way or form did I say I am an expert and what I say is what is fact. I was merely trying to get my own opinions across using factual events which I linked up to media releases. I am not letting those media prints determine how I feel for him. I disliked him from the very first day when I saw him on TV which basically was him saying Vancouver is crap. "However, the Bible does talk of forgiveness and Steve did publicly apologize for mishandling himself...or did you forget to add that to your post???" Right, and when do you think he asked Vancouver for forgiveness? He never apologized for his actions, he only rationalized the way he behaved on draft night with excuses. And even if he did, which he didn't, how do you explain several months later when he shouts out F-U Vancouver!! Was he asking for repentence than as well? LOL. "Who was hurt by his actions..or were you again just speaking hypothetically??" Obviously it was hypothetical. Are you sure you are college educated? "I can tell you that I believe you to be incorrect!" And that is your choice. My goal in posting was not to convince every Houston fan that Steve is a jerk. I was merely trying to shed some light on events that occured so Houston fans would think before calling him a classy guy (which they did if you were to look at the Stromile thread). ------------------
