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Stephen Hawking: "God didn't create universe"

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by G-Money, Sep 2, 2010.

  1. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Maybe guided isn't the best word to use there, as it to some it may imply the hand of an intelligent being. But its not correct to say that structures which evolve through natural selection came about randomly. Evolution isn't a random process.
     
  2. rhester

    rhester Contributing Member

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    Good point,

    actually the better term would be unintended at the level of origins.

    or random will do also. :)
    random means without intention or design

    for instance a random number generator would indicate unintended selection
     
  3. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    NO, that is not the way entropy works. The chemistry of the universe has gone from singularity to hydrogen to complex organic compounds from the breakdown of the high energy potential of simpler structures to the lower energy transfer potential of more complex, diffused and variable complex structures. Complexity is stability due to it's reduced capacity for energy transfer.

    And here is an article by those athiest at National Geographic.

    Some of life's raw ingredients may have originated in space, says a new analysis of an Australian meteorite that adds more fuel to the controversial theory. Researchers discovered the organic molecules uracil and xanthine in the meteorite and confirmed they could not have formed on Earth. These molecules, called nucleobases, are precursors to DNA, a set of genetic instructions for organisms on Earth


    NO, evolution is as brainless and mindless and random as anything you can imagine. Evolutionary changes can be instigated by a cosmic ray exciting one electron of a sugar molecule in a vast chain of a DNA molecule. That's pretty random. Change is constant, it's degree is variable, it's results may or may not be replicated, it can produce evolutionary winners because they can more readily reproduce copies of themselves or losers that don't reproduce as well or the same just different. There is no plan, just a constant stream of **** thrown on the wall where some sticks and some doesn't.
     
    #263 Dubious, Sep 9, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  4. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    I wish I were more spiritual, but I am too cynical.
     
    1 person likes this.
  5. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    I wish I were crazy committed to something I believed down to my core.


    [​IMG]
     
    #265 Dubious, Sep 9, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  6. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Pretty much.
     
  7. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    COMMITTED TO SKEPTICISM!

    COMMITTED TO BLASE'!
     
  8. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    Dubious is right about the science stuff. As long as the sun burns, we're in a system with an energy source.

    And you could think that if a God controls the environment, then God controls a degree on how life evolves, but the evolutionary process itself is very chaotic and opportunistic.
     
  9. Raven

    Raven Member

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    I agree. My favorite music video, ever.

    <object width="480" height="385"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/zSgiXGELjbc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/zSgiXGELjbc?fs=1&amp;hl=en_US" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="480" height="385"></embed></object>

    ;)
     
  10. Steve_Francis_rules

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    You stole my idea, I posted that on the last page already! :cool:
     
  11. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    A still more glorious dawn awaits.
     
  12. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Sorry.

    ;)
     
  13. Raven

    Raven Member

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    Only if we reject religious dogma, embrace critical thinking, promote science and education, and quickly find practical solutions to runaway population growth.
     
  14. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Religious dogma is a relic of the pre-nationstate era. What is after the nationstate?
     
  15. mc mark

    mc mark Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]
     
  16. pppbigppp

    pppbigppp Member

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    Religion is base on dogma, science uses axiom. Big difference between the two.
     
  17. Dubious

    Dubious Contributing Member

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    If I had fast photoshop skill I would have balloons where these guys are saying "not bloody likely"

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
    (less in context, but I just liked this pic)
     
    #277 Dubious, Sep 9, 2010
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2010
  18. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Contributing Member

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    A Second Life?
     
  19. Ubiquitin

    Ubiquitin Contributing Member
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    Axioms do not rule the masses.
     
  20. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member

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    Your analogy presumes a source from where the stream originates, and its a stream of random stuff. And then some of that stuff sticks and some doesn't.

    That's not the correct model. Its the stuff that sticks which propagates the stream. So, whether its truly random depends on whether the sticking is random, because otherwise the stream of stuff has bias. Well, what decides if its going to stick or not? Completely arbitrary and independent of everything? No. Nature is governed by physical laws, and those laws determine whether it "sticks" (i.e. survives amidst its local environment).

    Note: I'm not asserting that there is a plan or intelligence behind evolution. Its neither random nor planned.
     

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