Stephen Davis and Kyle Turley to the Texans???

Wells- I can tell you that unless he has changed a ton since college is not a feature back.
He's a big guy who at times can make you drop your jaw with his potential, but usually he runs like a smaller back. One problem he is not fast enough to break things outside.

We have had a lot of decent RBs come out of OSU the last 10 years and so and Jonathon Wells just never showed the heart of an Eddie George or Raymont Harris or athleticism of Robert Smith.

Doesn't mean he can't be a decent RB, maybe he could be the #1 RB on a team with a real good O-line and good QB but I see him as a real solid second teamer.

 

I think its a little premature to start saying that Jonathan Wells will never be a feature back in the NFL. First of all the guy was a rookie, he was behind a terible line, and had to share the position with James Allen.

This argument would be analagous to saying that Carr will never be a #1 quarterback because of all the sacks he took, or the interceptions he threw.

I know we all love football, and we love the fact that we have a first-class football team, but cut the guys some slack. There were times I wanted to yell and scream at Wells, but he showed a few bright spots that it should garner him another chance.

As for Stephen Davis, I think he would be a good addition to the team, but the offensive line needs to be shored up first before any running back (not named Jim Brown and Barry Sanders) is going to be effective.

 

first of all, carr didn't throw a lot of interceptions, relatively speaking. but numbers aren't really relevant when judging rookies, anyway, especially rookies who start for an expansion team.

what you look for is a flash of their potential spread throughout the season. and carr flashed his on several occassions -- his tenacity, his penchent for not forcing things, his arm strength and accuracy... what did wells flash? the line was terrible, but it wasn't 100% the problem. he and allen both looked like they went down on first contact, had trouble finding the hole and lacked breakaway speed.

i'm not down on wells, but i'm not high on him, either. he is what he is -- a competent back taken in the fourth round. he'll be a nice back-up and decent spot starter.

 

I seem to remember Wells having an 80 yard game on like only 11 carries behind our suck a$$ offensive line. As far as their numbers, Carr's and Wells' both sucked, so either its the line or them, you can't make excuses for Carr and not for Wells, it just isn't fair.

 

sure it is. the OL, which was terrible, is still only 1/3 of the offensive equation when it comes to evaluating carr. he was also saddled with the league's worst rush offense and far and away its worst receiving corp. carr was the team's only offensive weapon, and defenses geared up to stop him. do you honestly think any of them feared jonathan wells?

last year, i saw what the texans did in carr. he has a terrific arm, he's a decent scrambler and he doesn't force things. he's going to be a very good QB. wells' flashes were far fewer, if there were any, and never once did he do anything to make me think we had found the answer at RB. hell, he had trouble beating out james freaking allen.

 

Wells had a poor passing game to complement him so teams geared up to stop him. Whatever you say can be argued both ways. We just won't know till the line is fixed. I don't care how good he is, unless a running back is named Barry Sanders, he needs holes to run through, just like the QB needs time to pass.

 

Great points. When a receiver drops a pass, it counts as an incomplete pass by the QB. When the ball flies off a receiver's hands or chest and into the hands of a defender, the QB gets an INT. The stats don't tell the whole story. Carr impressed me, too. He was poised, patient and extremely accurate. Even when defenders came in untouched and not remotely concerned about the running game, Carr stayed cool and didn't force the issue.

I personally, would like to see what Wells can do behind a better line. But one thing that stands out is that Wells (like Allen) got his longest runs as a non-starter, change of pace back and didn't do a good job of breaking (ankle) tackles.

 

actually, it really can't be argued both ways because the texans' offense used the run to set up the pass, not the other way around, and that led to countless second- and third-and-long situations for carr, further stacking the deck against him.

further, when the team did pass, they were most effective throwing the ball deep, which, in theory, anyway, should open up lanes for your back. didn't happen.

wells is, at best, average, and i think the texans' coaching staff would agree. notice, he was the only offensive rookie not handed a job out of training camp and he struggled to beat out james allen, who he split playing time with. hell, carr had more rushing TDs.

 

First you say the passing game was poor because of Wells and the line, then you say Wells should open up the passing game with rushing and he didn't therefore the passing game was poor, then you say, they were effective throwing the ball deep" so Wells should have more running lanes. You're arguing in circles. Either they were effective or they weren't, they weren't neither was Wells, and we won't know till the line is fixed.

 

you're trying to melt this discussion down into easy to digest wholes, rather than keeping them as separate parts, which is how they were intended.

sorry, man, i never said that. what i said was that carr, not the passing game, struggled, and that it was because of the line, the rushing attack and the receivers.

i posted this to demonstrate carr had a taller deck stacked against him than wells as a means of countering your claim that carr should be judged by the same criteria as wells.

again, sorry -- never said that. what i said was that the texans' offense was designed to use the run to set-up the pass.

here, i was responding to your claim that wells was hurt by a poor passing attack. if the pass wasn't being used to set-up the run... how could wells' production be hurt? it's not possible. you even hinted teams were geared up to stop wells, which is silly and led to...

now this i did say. the texans' only success on offense this year came early in the season when bradford was able to burn CBs deep. no team stacked the line to stop jonathan wells, come on!

in theory, if you're having success throwing the ball downfield, it should force the safety back and open up lanes for your back. never happened. partially because the line couldn't open lanes, partially because wells and allen couldn't hit the lanes.

no, not really. even with you taking a lot of what i said out of context, it's still makes sense.

the running game, which was being used to set-up the pass, struggled, which impacted carr's performance. the little success the offense did have this year came when carr was able to throw deep, which he did in spite of no running game. in theory, that should've made things easier on wells... it didn't.

btw, in addition to mangling my points, you also failed to respond to my questioning why wells was the only offensive rookie not handed a job out of training camp and why he had trouble beating out james allen. we could also address his piss-poor block recognition, his questionable hands, his fumbles...

the line was a problem, yes, but not the only one -- wells isn't good.

 

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Okay, now I see, Carr and the passing game don't go hand in hand, I mean, its not like he took every snap at his position. How can I not see that when you say passing game you don't mean Carr. He obviously has nothing to do with it being the QB and all. And as far as just because the run was being used to set up the pass, who cares what is used to set up what, they both didn't work. Get it. Even if the game starts out with the run, there still has to be a threat of pass. I think that by the 3rd game there was a threat of neither.

And lastly, if the Texans were running on 1st and 2nd down every game, and this became an established pattern, how is the deck more stacked against Carr, when the defense knows its going to be a run. If you and I and everyone else watching and playing expect run, that plays into Carr's favor.

 

(sigh....) look back over the thread -- this discussion has always specifically been about comparing carr's performance to wells' performance last year. that means we were talking about individuals and what criteria we should be using to judge their individual success (or lack thereof).

the passing game is not made up of one individual, but several elements, including, the play of the QB, RB, FB, WRs, OL, not to mention the coaches, their system, etc. so, no, in this instance, carr and the passing game do not go hand in hand, because we're discussing individual performances and what elements are possiblly impacting those performances. so when you claim i'm blaming the line and wells for the lack of success in the passing game... you're wrong. i never said that.

what did i say? let's go back to the start -- your claim was that, because they both had to play behind the same awful OL, they both should be judged by that basis and that basis alone. in fact, here's your quote:

i was merely countering this assertion; the OL was not the team's sole problem last year and therefore, carr had more handicaps than wells. thus, when comparing how the two rookies performed, because carr's deck was stacked higher, he can't be judged on the same plain as wells.

well, i care, if you're going to try and argue that wells was hurt by an ineffective passing game. that'd be true if the passing game was expected to set-up the run, but we're not the rams, or the raiders or the run-n-shoot oilers.

uhm... yeah.

hmmm... that must've been why carr's best games came after the 3rd game.

and you're asking if i get it? how is constantly putting your QB in long yardage situations working in his favor? he has blockers that can't hold their blocks, receivers who can't get open and no threat of a back breaking off a big run, and you're contending long yardage situations play into carr's favor?

and still no comment on wells' being the only offensive rookie who had to earn playing time? still no comment on his inability to pick up a blitz? still no comment on his fumbles? still no comment of his average, at best, hands? his lack of breakaway speed?

i guess we could continue to go 'round and 'round, with you trying harder and harder to water down my points, but i'd really rather we not: carr struggled, but was handicapped in every offensive area. in spite of this, he showed mutliple flashes of his potential, and overall, kept his poise and showed a lot of balls. what, exactly, did wells do to make you think he's capable of being an every down back inthe NFL?

 

What about Kyle Turley. I admit to only being a casual football fan, who likes and knows a few teams - Texans and Eagles chief among those. What kind of player is Turley? How much would it take to sign him, would it be worth it, would it make the offensive line middle of the pack, etc?

Beefing up our offensive line with proven, solid starters that we can assume will be injury free is more important than getting a really really good running back, imo.

 

OK, maybe I over-exaggerated that somewhat.

 

You're completely way off homeboy. Just read what happened during Davis's visit to the Texans and you will see why Davis will probably end up in a Texans uniform next season.

March 6, 2003, 12:35AM

Davis, Texans hit it off
Familiar faces comforting sight
By JOSEPH DUARTE
Copyright 2003 Houston Chronicle

A two-day visit by free-agent running back Stephen Davis with the Texans was more like a reunion than a job interview.

The only thing missing was Hail To The Redskins being played in the background.

Davis, the top available rusher on the free-agent market, met with Texans front-office and coaching personnel -- many of whom he knows from a seven-year career in Washington -- for several hours Wednesday morning at Reliant Park. While no deal was reached, the former Pro Bowler said he felt comfortable testing the free-agent market for the first time, since he was surrounded by so many familiar faces.

"You want to go to a team that has good people and somewhere where you're comfortable," Davis said. "This is my first time in free agency, so this is different. This is nothing I can get used to. I would love to be with a team right now."

Also Wednesday, Texans free-agent strong safety Eric Brown met with the Pittsburgh Steelers. Brown, who was not offered a contract, could be nearing a decision between the Texans and Steelers.

A quick decision also is something Davis would like to reach, and familiarity could be a major selling point. The Texans appear to be the early front-runner to land Davis, with their chief competition coming from the Carolina Panthers, whom Davis will visit today and Friday. The Panthers also will receive strong consideration because of the close proximity between Charlotte, N.C., and Davis' home in Spartanburg, S.C.

A decision by Davis could come by this weekend.

"We had a good meeting," said Texans general manager Charley Casserly, who drafted Davis in 1996 when he held the same front-office position with the Redskins. "Both sides have an interest. We agreed to talk in a couple of days."

Along with Casserly, there are 16 former non-playing members of the Redskins organization currently working for the Texans, including head athletic trainer Kevin Bastin and strength and conditioning coach Dan Riley. Defensive tackle Gary Walker is a former college teammate of Davis' at Auburn.

"You have trust in those guys," Davis said. "When (Dan) was in Washington, I didn't get hurt. When he left, I had a shoulder and knee problems."

Davis, who turned 29 on March 1, was limited to 820 yards rushing last season because of knee and shoulder injuries plus a decreased role in coach Steve Spurrier's pass-happy offense. The Redskins released Davis on Feb. 26, saving $5.2 million on the salary cap for the upcoming season. Tampa Bay also is believed to have interest in Davis, although salary-cap restraints make the Buccaneers a long shot.

After ranking next to last in the NFL last season in rushing offense, the Texans have made upgrading the backfield a top priority this offseason. The Texans' 84.2-yards-per-game average trailed only Chicago (84.0).

Davis, who rushed for nearly 5,800 yards in his career with the Redskins, could satisfy the Texans' craving for a bruising, up-the-gut feature back.

"I think right now they have a good nucleus with David Carr playing quarterback and a defense that was probably one of the better in the league last year," said Davis, who has been cleared medically and passed a physical conducted by the Texans. "I think with a good running game this team can go a long way."

The Texans also remain interested in Buffalo free-agent running back Shawn Bryson, who paid a visit Tuesday. Bryson has scheduled visits to Carolina, Jacksonville and Kansas City. The signing of Davis would not preclude the possibility of the Texans signing Bryson, who would be used as a third-down back and come with a considerably cheaper price tag.

Bryson is coming off an anterior cruciate ligament injury suffered Oct. 13 against the Texans and is expected to be able to resume full workouts in May.

After saying goodbye to offensive tackle Ryan Young and linebacker Jeff Posey during the past week, the Texans should know more about Brown, who started 15 games at strong safety, within a few days. Brown, who is drawing interest from New Orleans, has said he would like to remain with the Texans.

But after Wednesday's visit, Brown said he could envision himself with the Steelers.

"This is a physical defense," Brown told Pittsburgh reporters. "That's me all the way. That's my style of defense. Getting up near the line, blitzing, making plays. That's what I do."

In other Texans-related news, Casserly will lead a contingent of team personnel today to Coral Gables, Fla., to watch pro day at the University of Miami. Among the players the Texans will closely monitor is receiver Andre Johnson, who could be an option if they elect to keep their third overall pick in next month's draft.

 

wrong how, g? i mentioned he'd likely have more affection for turner and his staff than he would casserly, who i doubt he's interacted with much over the years. and from the article you posted, he says nothing to dispute that. he never mentions casserly, let alone cite him as a reason for being interested in houston.

further, i never said he wouldn't end up in houston. in fact, we found last night, his agent flew in the a.m. to start negotiating a deal.

 

what do you think, ric? would you sign davis for the texans? think it's a good idea? i've heard arguments on both sides...

 

I thought you were meaning that his Redskin ties to the good ole' days wouldnt help the Texans at all. I wasent just talking about Casserly, but about the Redskin army he brought with him to Houston. I felt this could really help and be our "ace" in landing Davis. Just a simple misunderstanding occured. I hope I didnt offend you in any way.