[Stein] Thomas Robinson could be traded to either Chicago or Cleveland

So you have become Tinman now?

 

Hmmmmm. blast from the past.

I don't see that altogether. The Dale Davis I remember was long and lanky and less explosive than TRob. TRob strikes me a a lot quicker/faster than Dale with Dale having a much better offensive skill set and bball iq. Id say statistically that's about his max...perhaps a 12/10 guy. But I don't see similarity in their actual on-court games.

I'd like to know what Carl thinks TRob's ceiling is.

In my opinion, this is TRob's ceiling...a young pre-injury Antonio McDyess. That's his ceiling. Here's what McDyess looked like back then. He basically averaged around 19/9 and had a couple 20+p/10+r seasons while healthy with all that explosion. TRob has this kind of physical gifts and TRob does have the same 15-17 footer. We saw it all the time at KU. He just never got comfortable with that jumper last season.

Once again, I am saying this is TRob's ceiling. Don't know if he's got the brain cells to be this good or not but he's got the physical gifts and the bball skills to be this good....in my opinion.

<iframe width="420" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/0hfpgASxtRo" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

 

Who gives a sheet? They both suck

 

Such a defensive Carl Herrera nowadays.
Man, the mighty really have fallen.

 

Carl is sure good at making straw men lately. Those of us who like T-Rob don't like him because he "runs fast". We like him because he had elite stats in a tough college conference, he has great overall athleticism and work ethic, and shows flashes of dominant defensive/rebounding potential.

 

Maybe I shorted him a bit on those items. It's hard to tell in such limited minutes. Maybe he keeps up his per 36 rebound rate if he got more minutes. Maybe not. As an "energizer bunny" type player, its easier to do that in spurts. He was ok defensively. I certainly didn't think great. Maybe average. I thought TJones showed himself to have a lot more potential defensively, imo.

At the moment he is SO system dependent. Your analogy to Morris is apt, imo, in that while he certainly improved, the system also did half the work. He went backwards once traded to Phoenix again - got less minutes, but chicken or egg... he shot much worse. Maybe he rectifies it again in the offseason and becomes a decent rotational role player next year.

But that's not exactly a high ceiling to look up to. And I haven't called TRob a bust. I just think his ceiling is so so so much lower than it was a year ago. His ceiling is Nick Collison at his peak (06-08). That's all I was pointing out.

 

Great comparison. What you have to wonder about with TRob is how much he's ALREADY worked on his jumper. Sure, endless reps will make you better, but maybe he sucked really hard before and has already put in those endless reps and it's only improved his shot to where it sucks a little less. Spending hours in the gym (assuming he's willing to do that) doesn't automatically make you Larry Bird.

TRob has known for years he was NBA-bound, and yet for whatever reasons has never developed a game other than using his athleticism to get a few buckets and rebounds. He doesn't seem to be all that aware of the finer points of the inside game, either. I don't have much hope that he's capable of much more than 12/8, even if he's given starter's minutes.

That having been said, 2Pat was no prize -- decent mid-range shot, getting better from 3, but no inside presence at all. Nobody around here misses him the way we missed, say, Mandry. In fact, the only person on this entire board who's still talking about him at all is Carl H.

 

Dale Davis was an athletic specimen (very explosive) and hustled his a$$ off. (relentless)He had no J....but had great instincts....whether hitting the boards or playing great interior D.

While I like Thomas more than most here, pre injury Dice seems a bit high. A healthy Antonio McDyess would have been one of the best PF's to ever play the game.

 

McDyess is an interesting comparison. I looked at players from the past that had similar skillsets, size, and similar statistical rookie seasons, and the players I saw that were the high-end comparisons were Kenyon Martin, Corliss Williamson, and Dale Davis.

You can throw Ben Wallace in the mix too, but Robinson is already much more talented offensively than Big Ben ever was in his prime.

I think Corliss Williamson seems to be a fairly positive comparison if he can make the improvement that he has the potential to make in year 2 & 3. As an undersized, athletic PF, Williamson really has alot of similar characteristics at this point in his career. SEC player of the year coming out of college, rough start in the NBA, but once he found his niche he actually was the most improved player one year if I remember correctly.

Williamson was traded quite a bit during his career, but always had value as a versatile athletic player who could do alot of different things on both ends. However he still always kept value in the NBA. Enough to even be a major piece that was involved in the trade that brought Chris Webber to Sacramento.

If we are being optimistic, I think this is the kind of career you might see from Robinson.

 

Well...I was one of the ones that wanted PPat gone early. I knew we had to trade him because his trade value was fixing to go down this coming season with a pending restricted free agency. But I must say I did miss PPat during the playoffs.

PPat might actually be the best midrange shooting PF in the league right now. On the shot that I hate the most in basketball he actually became very good at it, good enough that I would accept him taking it in the flow of an offense. And he was much improved from the corner 3. I missed PPat during the playoffs but I knew he had to go. I knew we had to maximize trade value for him.

Now, some say that we're not getting maximum value for TRob. Maybe...maybe not. Haven't seen the trade yet. Don't really know how good these guys are going to turn out to be. And we can't help it that we've fallen into contention to sign the best 5 man in the NBA and we need the cap space. But I will tell you this much, I'd gladly trade TRob and his potential for Dwight. And I would have been more than happy to trade both Morris and PPat and their potential for Dwight. And the bottom line is this is what is happening. Except that we are salvaging another asset by trading TRob. Can you imagine trying to trade PPat and Morris into this draft to clear cap to sign Dwight??? We'd be lucky to get 2 second rounders for both of those guys right now.

 

whether or not Robinson is a bust or not is IRRELEVANT, he must be traded regardless, his value or potential value as a player is not our concern

just be happy other teams don't view him as a bust

 

I guess my big thing is that Robinson will still be under rookie contract for longer than Patterson. He doesn't have to have super value, just more value over the rest of rookie contract than Patterson has left on rookie contract for it to be a good trade. Value in the 2014-2016 time frame is more important to Rockets and majority of NBA (non-contenders) than the 2013-2014 season is. Patterson's contract would need to be shed like Robinson's is now, but a long shot like Robinson is worth more than a one year rental in Patterson to non-contenders.

I like Patterson and can see Rockets looking at him with portion of MLE next season, but probably get priced out of the market for him.

 

It was once posted that there were 20 different ways to create the cap room they need to sign Dwight.

Id like to know what the other 19 are.

 

well, I think they're are a lot of ways, but none of them are as painless as moving Trob and either moving or cutting and stretching White. They would include things like moving Asik or Lin in a myriad of different ways, cutting players we want to keep like Beverly, trading players we want to keep like Dmo or TJones, or making a larger deal that would include Parsons.

For instance, since this is such a terrible draft, if the Rockets knew of a player that they really liked in it, they could trade into a very high pick using Asik, Robinson, maybe future 1st rounders or other assets on the team. They could then gain a lower salaried contributor and asset and get rid of some of the excess salry -- but, like I said, doing this would be painful and cause the team to not be as good as simply getting rid of Trob and the Whineybago.

 

Wouldn't it be nice to have Trey Burke ....or MCW instead of Lin?

 

Trey Burke would be very nice.

 

Missing U: Patrick Patterson

 

I agree. I thought it was (and still do) a fantastic trade. TRob had more upside then, although you could already tell he wasn't going to be amazing, but he at least had the ability to leapfrog Jones, Smith, DMo, White immediately. I don't think he does now, but you still have that ?... which is apparently making him somewhat attractive to certain other GMs

 

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet"><p>They need to to pave way for Dwight's max deal, so yes RT <a href="https://twitter.com/TheRealG_Newt">@TheRealG_Newt</a>: <a href="https://twitter.com/search?q=%23AskDraft&amp;src=hash">#AskDraft</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/sam_amick">@sam_amick</a> Do the Rockets trade Thomas Robinson today?</p>&mdash; Sam Amick (@sam_amick) <a href="https://twitter.com/sam_amick/statuses/350317195693268992">June 27, 2013</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

I hope he gets sent to Chicago, a great coach will probably have Robinson looking like a all star in 2-3 seasons if not sooner. Besides they could use a big what with Boozer getting older and no one really behind him should something happen to him or Noah.

I figure best landing places for Robinson in his current raw form would be Chicago or San Antonio. Just hope Morey doesn't lose him without getting any draft picks all in the name of potentially freeing up space.