Statistically, Ty Lawson looks like a top 10 point guard

It's the offseason WTF else is there to talk about?

 

I just don't get why ppl are going to such elaborate lengths to masquerade themselves as objectively looking at the facts when it's so obvious everyone has an agenda to just see Lawson in the top 10 for some reason.

I mean just say look, we grant you that Lawson's defense was close to the worst in the league at his position the last two years. And then rank him on offense. On offense, he's up there with just about any of them.

 

You're going to make Damian Lillard cry.

 

I qualified it originally by pointing out "Admittedly, this is just a random collection of ind stats I look at for evaluating NBA PGs ..."

But I think you came into the middle of my case and misread it ... I DON'T think Lawson is technically a Top 10 PG
And I agree with you that the arbitrary +/- Top 10 cutoff is meaningless as well

I was simply trying to illustrate that, to me, Ty is in a group of about 8 PGs (whom I would rank as 2nd/3rd Tier in the #8-16 range among all NBA points) who are all very similar in Total Value as a player, but that he generally ranks toward the lower half of this range statistically

Several in the thread were implying that Ty is 'clearly' better than others like Teague, Irving, etc ...
I wanted to confirm for myself that statistically, over the past 2 seasons, this was not true ... I felt my numbers did that, and I thought a few on Clutch might want to see the results

I also agree with you that useful DEF NBA stats are far fewer than for OFF stats
As you pointed out, if anything, my random collection of stats might OVERVALUE Ty by emphasizing his OFF strengths with more measurements, while minimizing his DEF weaknesses

Even with that potential OFF bias, Ty still didn't rise to the top of this 'Tier 2/3' group, so I'm def not making the case that he is a 'Tier 1' PG

As for why? ... I dunno

Ranking players in a league by position with a value, and then subdividing those rankings into tiers, is just a personal hobby of mine across all sports that I've been doing since I was a kid

Blame it on the Madden Generation
And the offseason

 

Here is a more detailed look at how he stands against some of his peers:

Spoiler

Offensively, he looks like a top 5-6 PG

Defensively, he is certainly towards the bottom, but overall in the 7-11 range.

 

He doesn't need to be a stud defensively, he's an offensive machine and we won a title with Kenny Smith who could shoot threes, dish a bit and get inside once in a while. Good stats to back up his offensive prowess. Getting to the rim 2nd behind Harden and assists per game last year top 3, it's going to be a hell of a year!!

 

Offensively he may be good but keep in mind some of it will be negated by his overlapping skill sets with James Harden. Harden will remain the primary ball handler on the court thereby minimizing some of Lawson's best skills over his 30 or so minutes a game.

Defensively he is one of the worst PG's along with one of the worst SG's in Harden.

We have all been claiming that Harden has to do so much on offense and thereby he is right to slack on defense at times and have given him a pass. Now, that excuse is no longer valid. Harden has sufficient help on offense and my hope is that with that comes a vastly improved and focused Harden on defense.

 

i couldn't take the current nba blackout anymore so this weekend with league pass online, i watched a few of lawson's games from last season. 2 from january and 2 from march.

first of all his defense is really not that bad. he works….stays in front of his man and contests shots. he has very quick feet and is able to recover when necessary. the obvious issue is when he gets posted up near the basket. but even then, his strength allows him to compete in the same way harden does. where he does need improvement is fighting around picks and avoiding silly fouls reaching in for steals.

on offense, he is quite often the guy creating something and then making the initial pass which eventually leads to an open look. so his 10assts/game stat doesn't even fully reflect how good of a playmaker he actually is.

he is very unselfish and probably should/could have forced the issue more for denver by taking more shots himself. i think this is where he got a bad rap in denver for not being more of a "leader." there was one stretch where he made a few shots and denver announcers started giving out backhanded compliments "ya that's the ty lawson we need to see more of." in transition he is FUN to watch, his speed and acceleration downcourt are clearly elite.

finishing in the paint -- he does get blocked at the rim on occasion, but is able to convert there suprisingly well for his size.

making open 3's -- he made about half of the ones i saw (roughly 8-17 over 4 games)

rebounding -- i don't know if it's the plays they run, but he did A LOT of standing around on the perimeter in their sets. so when plays were run for his teammates, lawson was basically on the other side of the floor at the arc and therefore out of position to grab any offensive rebounds. on defense he seemed to jump in and get his share of opponents' misses. getting back to denver's play calls, i noticed that every time lawson brought the ball upcourt he called out a play for his teammates to follow. this is something mchale recently alluded to as well, saying he thinks lawson will thrive much more in our open offense here.

minutes/usage -- they didn't seem to use him that much (he sat out roughly the middle 11min of each half for jameer nelson in a couple of the games) and when he was on the floor very rarely was a play called for him to go ISO on his own. the few times per game they did clear the floor for him, he usually scored.

ballhandling -- his short arms allow him to keep the ball very close to his body at all times meaning he doesn't get his pocket picked, at least not in the games i watched. those short arms also allow him to get away with carrying on his crossover and refs don't even notice it. as far as splitting double teams on the perimeter, he does it with ease. but like i mentioned before, he prefers to pass it out after breaking down the defense instead of looking for his own shot.

 

thx, i actually made a mistake about the games watched…..december & march, no january..

12/13 @HOU
12/17 HOU
3/3 MIL
3/15 @NOP

funny that in that first game above, clyde actually said lawson is the most underrated player in the entire league :grin:

 

sorry, he actually says it in this game from 2yrs ago:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iEXQDJPdQa4