Statistical Comparisions for Kyle Lowry

Uh reading comprehension please? He did a pretty good job as a scorer. That does not make him a good player. There is more to being a player than scoring. He was a good scorer, but mediocre player. I have always maintained this argument so either you are trying to (and failing at) nitpicking or you should work on your reading comprehension.

 

Again, my expectations was for him to perform well as a player. I expected him to put up points in bunches. That kind of goes along with the entire he is a scorer on a team with no other scorers argument. There are a lot of crappy players that can put up points in bunches. Doesn't mean they are good or that the world is lining up to sign them. Also, our team has always overachieved during some stretch each of the last few seasons, whether it was Rafer playing out of his mind, AB playing in a team devoid of scorers, or Lowry showing us why he should have always been the PG. Also, since when is a 42-40 record anything more than mediocre? Regardless of our team situation, that record is still nothing to write home about either.

 

Crappy players don't help their team to a 42-40 record, in the West mind you, going down to the last minute fighting for a playoff spot.

Crappy players don't do that when your team has no certified all-stars. AB was a top 2 player on our team that year, if you ask any sane general NBA fan.

42-40 record is more than mediocre if you consider who we lost (Tmac/Yao/Artest, and signing Ariza) to start the season, and what the expectations were to start the season.

I don't know if you followed the Rockets that year, but it was a pretty damn exciting season. And that season brought more excitement into this 10-11 season (which was soured by AB's injury/attitude).

A mediocre player would describe a Rafer Alston in his prime.

 

So Kevin Martin is a great scorer, but average player then (since he does LESS all-around than AB does)? No Kevin Martin is a borderline all-star b/c his job is to score, so I judge him by that.

I'm not nitpicking. AB's job was mostly to score for us, since we lost 3 of our top scorers. He was our best 1-on-1 player, and his role was clearly to score first and foremost. So if you think he did "pretty good" as a scorer, he was a pretty good player for us, don't you think so?

Don't know if you're trying to be smart and dumb at the same time. A guy who plays 24 minutes has more impact on a game than a guy who plays 36 minutes? A guy who didn't play as much down the stretch in games that year had more impact that a guy who finished most games? A guy who played vs the other team's 2nd tier players?

But you're right that Lowry wasn't a crappy player. He was good.

EDIT: following that logic, the Bulls' play better in terms of +/- without Derrick Rose over an 82-game season. Care to explain?

 

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To be fair, Martin doesn't do less all-around than '09-'10 Brooks did - his defensive winshares and defensive rating metrics are identical. Martin may be a liability there, but Brooks was too. Meanwhile on offense, yes, they are both scorers and shot similar percentages, but Martin took the same number of shots to get 4 more points per game, more free throws, converted those at a better percentage, and had fewer turnovers.

And this is not an anti-Brooks post - I liked him in his MIP season and am sorry things went the way they did. It's just a facts post - Brooks and Martin are comparable on some level, but '11 Martin is just better by any yardstick you can come up with.

 

Obviously Martin is a much better player than AB. I wasn't implying that, I was simply responding to that poster.

Going into that season, Adelman looked for him to carry the scoring load b/c Yao was done and Artest was gone. So if he thinks AB did a pretty good job as a scorer, then he did pretty good as a whole that season.

What that tells me is Loul Deng is by far the best player on the Bulls.

 

Unclear on what this was then:

I understand your overall point. Brooks, overall, was a pretty decent player that year, in the same way Martin, overall, was a very good player this year. I'm just one of those damn Martin huggers and couldn't let it go by.

 

Addressed your concerns.

 

So this past season of 43-39 is mediocre too?

My fault if that is what you think I implied. I don't jock KMart, but I appreciate what he does for our team.

 

Martin has multiple ways to score even when his shot does not fall; he can get to the line by drawing fouls, he can drive, and he can finish fast breaks. AB has one offensive weapon to start everything off, the threat of his shot.

Just because scoring was his primary assigned role means that we should just look the other way for all his shortcomings? I don't think so. Like I said, he did a pretty good job scoring. This however, does not make him a good player.

 

Actually, the link Carl gave was just for the Bulls’ playoffs…where we all saw what happened to Rose’s play. His adjusted +/- for for the regular season is far and away the best on the team. Just like Kyle Lowry’s was far and away the best for the Rockets’ last season.

 

It is because Martin is a much better player than Brooks, the guy is a borderline All-star. There's a big gap between good player and borderline all-star.

Why are you keep comparing AB to guys who are considered "stars" in this league?

I would like to know which players you consider "good" as compared to AB in 09-10?

 

Chase Budinger was 2nd best on that +/- for the season. And Kevin Martin is a -3.44 for the year.

So I guess Kevin Martin must be a mediocre player last year And Luis Scola???

 

Absolutely! It was a failure as a season! If Lowry had started much sooner and RA didn't insist on playing the players that he did, we would have definitely made the playoffs IMHO. There were just too many failures last year for us to make up. We put up a damn good effort starting after AB went down and Lowry stepped up to the plate, but there were just too many failures by too many players that season to be successful:

- RA made many truly r****ded game personnel decisions, such as playing AB, Hill, and Budinger when they were performing horrifically bad.
- Budinger, Hill, and Brooks all too a huge step backwards
- A lineup of involving Martin, AB, and Scola showed us how pathetic our defense was.

I am not saying us not making the playoffs in 09-10 was AB's fault. Hell, no one smart expected we would even make the playoffs. AB did what he could as a decent scorer on the offensive end. That is not to say he wasn't a mediocre player or that it was all his fault we didn't get into the playoffs. All that means, is he wasn't a good or great player and our team collectively overachieved and failed at the same time.

 

So you started saying AB was a pretty good as a scorer, to now decent. Look, it's hard to have discussions when you keep changing your opinions about the same player in every post.

I guess your expectations are just very high. I, along with the NBA landscape, thought Brooks was pretty good that year. Let's just agree to disagree. This is a really moot point since we weren't really doing much as a team in both seasons, or in the foreseeable future.

 

Martin is considered a borderline star because regardless of whether or not his shot is falling, he can still get his points one way or another. When AB's shot isn't falling, how the hell is he going to score? Penetrating and finishing at the rim? I doubt it. He sucks at that. Can he take over the game with his passing ala Kidd, Nash, or Rondo? I really doubt that. Can he get to the foul line often? Not at all.

I am not comparing him to stars. I am bringing up the fact that first, he is not a playmaker and second, he is not a good player. Star scorers get leeway on other facets of their game, because they can be depended on to get their points regardless and lead their teams offensively. AB is a wholly one dimensional player who has one playmaking weapon and is a decent scorer provided the right situation.