Hayes is an above average defender. He can not stop any of the big PFs and neither Scola. The difference in defense between the two is not that big as Scola keeps learning how to play the NBA. On the other side, the difference in offensive skills is huge and that is why Scola should be getting 30 minutes and Hayes about 20 minutes.
As much as anyone I love and respect Hayes for his heart and culty everyman aura. However, when I'm picking a winner for the Kentucky Derby, I'm not choosing a mule just because that mule is in my stable. Player 9 - 12 off the bench is where Hayes belongs.
Um there is a huge difference defensively. I can't believe that you can't see it. Hayes is very good on transition and help defense. Scola still does not make his rotations quick enough. Also, he is somewhat weak on the post and relies on "flopping" to draw charges. Also, Hayes recognizes when Yao might draw fouls and commits it before Yao will be forced to foul. There is only one group of pf that Hayes has trouble guarding, and its the same group that any team will have difficulty guarding. This group is a pf that does not rely on position and can shoot very well (Duncan, Garnet, etc.).
You do realize this is a team game. Our team offense does not suffer dramatically when Hayes is not on the court. Just look at the stats between on and off court On Off Offense: Pts per 100 Poss 104.6 105.2 I its only .6 point difference. Now lets look at defense. On Off Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 99.3 107.0 That is a HUGE Difference. Lets look at Scola On Off Offense: Pts per 100 Poss. 104.7 105.0 On Off Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 102.7 103.7 As you can see the numbers for scola on offense and defense do not differ much. As for Hayes you notice a significant decrease in defensive efficiency when he is off the court.
Let's watch the game rather than the stats. Hayes plays with Yao and Scola generally doesn't so the numbers are skewed. Watch how easily taller power forwards shoot over Hayes despite his pushing on their bellybuttons. Watch how easily they block his shot. Even Jon Barry once commented that Hayes couldn't hit a layup in an empty gym. My plus/minus stats at 5-8 and 61 years old would be impressive if I played with Yao. All I have to do is be on the court at the same time.
Um, I am watching the game. What Hayes brings defensively is quite obvious. If it is because he is playing with Yao, then why isn't Yaos On/off defensive production as good as Hayes? Here is Yao's On/Off on defense for past 3 years 2007-2008 Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 104.1 100.5 2006-2007 Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 100.4 102.5 2005-2006 Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 103.3 106.6 Lets look at Hayes for the past 3 years: 2007-2008 Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 99.3 107.0 2006-2007 Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 96.5 105.6 2005-2006 Defense: Pts per 100 Poss. 96.2 106.3 Are you saying 3 straight years of this is pure coincidence? If it was truly because of Yao, then why isn't his on/off so different?
Well, thumbs, I guess you can't really refute my last post. It isn't a coincidence that JVG/RA both have Hayes in the starting lineup. Yao isn't in the game for defense, which is why Hayes is with him on the court. It is also no coincidence that when Yao was injured, Hayes was removed from the starting lineup in favor of Juwan Howard.Yao is very slow-footed and needs a much quicker guy to help him with the interior defense. Scola is still very slow on rotation and can not provide that help yet.
I still think Landry is the real deal. Although he just played one good game against the worst team in basketball, it has been noted that Landry has played significantly well in practice and in workouts, to the extent that he definitely deserves a chance in the rotation. And looking at his skills, you gotta like the fact that he's the most athletic 4 on the team, works hard, brings energy, and has a jumpshot on top of that. When a player has these kind of physical tools, there's no limit to his potential. I do agree with your point that putting him out there would be a slap in the face to Hayes. He has been great contributor to this team and definitely deserves the playing minutes he's given now. It's kinda of a interesting situation now at that power forward spot because we have Hayes, and then we're looking to give Landry AND Scola more minutes.
I see what you're saying and you make good points. Not that I think Hayes is our ideal PF or anything but he's definitely the least of our concerns. His play has been steady and consistent. You know exactly what you're getting each and every night. I think people are too obsessed with the idea of having some kind of 20/10 four and are hoping Scola or Landry could be that guy. So far Scola is obviously the only one that's proven that he deserves to split time with Hayes. Unless Hayes starts becomming ineffective or unable to play his game anymore I don't see how he gets demoted.
If you want stats with a little more context, 82games shows some player pair stats as of 1/7. http://82games.com/0708/0708HOUP.HTM In 641 minutes Yao played along side Chuck, per 48 minutes the Rockets outscored opponents 93.3 to 90.6 points. In 331 minutes where Yao played along side Scola, per 48 minutes the Rockets were outscored by opponents 92.7 to 94.8. Yao's stats aren't any better with Scola either, even though the popular argument is that Chuck's presence makes it more difficult for Yao to get good shots. I really don't know if those numbers were skewed. When Chuck plays with Yao, the other starters are also usually on the floor. At the same time, Adelman has been criticized for his choice of starters, so I don't know if that necessarily helps them (well, I think it does, but perhaps you don't). Further, Chuck and Yao together are also often playing against the opposing team's starters.
I think a lot of people here just looked at the box score and are having this knee jerk reaction. I watched the game last night, and it was very obvious that Landry has a lot of work to do on his post defense. Craig Smith backed him down multiple times (I'd say 3 straight times) for a hook shot and Landry was just helpless. Landry was visibly frustrated after each shot. Guys, he was playing against the 2nd unit of the worst team in the NBA. He will definitely improve as the season goes on, but he will have to wait until his post D gets better.
Landry's just a rookie - he's not quite ready. I like that he's athletic and he looks good offensively...but he still has some work to do. I like having Chuck start. He and Scola are doing well at the 4.
Chuck only makes $1.6 million. Yao makes more than $13 million and takes away 40 minuts of playing time from Landry. We should trade Yao to develop and later pay Landry.
So...what about this year then? The defensive numbers have been consistent this year and comparable last year with Scola as backup.
Landry played well on the offensive end last night, but you have to admit there were several straight possessions where Craig Smith killed him down low. Everyone sees that Hayes gets 4 points and cant shoot free throws and calls him garbage. Watch how often he saves Yao from a foul, switches on his man and ends up defending a guard, or taps an offensive rebound and see how it impacts the game. Landry will play more next year but Hayes will still be a rotation player, getting some PF min and some Center minutes after Deke is gone.
Chuck Hayes minutes just needs to be decreased, whether if he starts or not makes no difference especially if Landry and Scola continue to play as they did last night. People are high on Hayes he has his positives but he is a liability in many ways when the playoffs start. We haven't got out the first round yet with this team of Chuck Hayes starting at the four with Yao at five, Chuck getting the load of minutes at the four. When we play tougher teams we should examine Landry more against these teams like the Jazz, Dallas and Spurs. Landry can even be our Millsap. If we can't stop Boozer how about being able to answer Boozer on the offensive end, certainly Chuck Hayes can't supply that. So Scola and Landry against Boozer and Okur can work at times it gives Yao some rest eventhough he will get the most playing time but at the same time it leaves Hayes with less playing time which is good imo.
Hayes wouldn't have stopped Craig Smith Hook Shot ether. Only guy that could stop that move is Yao and Mutombo. Hayes might have have been smart enough to prevent Smith from getting post up position on him to receive the ball but that is it at best and most likely he wouldn't be able to do that because last year when they had Garnett, Craig Smith killed us the same way with Hayes guarding him.
Even if (or when) Scola and Landry both prove that they're better than Chuck on the floor and not only the boxscores, no way we should trade him. He makes 2 million a year (or even less). I'd say he is underpaid. We can afford to keep a quality player for two million even if he doesn't play. What if Scola or Landry'd get in foul trouble or injured, or suspended, or be absent for personal reasons? Having Chuck Hayes in those situations would be great. Chuck is a keeper.
