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start a rumor of Brand to Houston

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Hard Rock, Dec 7, 2002.

  1. clippy

    clippy Member

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    [double post]
     
    #41 clippy, Dec 9, 2002
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2002
  2. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

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    clippy,
    maybe you don't know the Rockets too well, but Mobley is way better than Maggette. he's been proved a 20+ scorer. and Wilcox is no better than Griffin either.

    Hiroshikun,
    we don't have the cap space to persue Brand next summer and a S&T deal is not likely because Sterling won't take back cap filler type players. therefore, trade for him now is the only way. and please don't worry about the chemistry. firstable, like everyone would agree that the Rockets won't be a serious contender this year. our goal is to make the playoffs first. don't you think Yao, Brand, Barry, and Francis can easily make the playoffs? also, there's no chemistry between selfish players. I don't think Mobley has much chemistry w/ his teamates even though being play toghter for years. on the other hand, smart players (high basketball IQ) brings in chemistry immideately. example: we traded for the Glide in the midseason and he contributed immideately and eventually helped us won the title. Yao Ming could be a good example too.

    Desert Scar,
    that's exactly what I proposed: Cat, Griffin, K.T., 1st rd. pick for Brand and Piat. the problem is that gives the Clipps 4 power forwards (and all of them are good: Griffin, K.T., Ely, Wilcox) that's why K.T. has to go somewhere else. K.T. + Piat. to Sonics for Barry give us a good 2 guard to replace cat.

    DavidS,
    there's no way we can/will trade Mo T, and K.T. to LA for Brand.
    and if you want to keep Eddie we have 4 power forwards.
     
  3. Hiroshikun

    Hiroshikun Member

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    Another reason I believe that NBA should introduce permit instead of tax. It would not only bring revenue sharing but also flexibility on structuring wages.
    Let assume that Rockets and Clippers are trying to make a trade involving Brand and that permit is available to be bought. The Clippers would probably sell their permit to the Rockets, than just letting Brand go on a free. Rocket's on the hand could buy the permit and sign Brand. Permit would behave similarly with luxury tax, as it inccurs extra cost on the teams which go above the cap. Also, from second year, permit can be changed to luxury tax, thus giving team which sold the permit "same amount of new cap space as the one they sold".
    The benefits?
    The teams like Rockets which knows that their pay-roll would go down in near future, for instance, Glenn Rice contract runs out next year, might be commited to take on the burden of permit knowing that its burden will be short term. Thus giving flexibility to the wage teams manage their payroll. Teams with long-term contracts would be less commited as they will be fully aware that the burden of long term luxury tax. The benifits for Clippers would be simple. They get extra revenues, and Donald Sterling could in the future use these revenues to increase their payroll.
     
  4. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    But I don't really like this from the Rockets perspective. Substitute Boki (for Cat) and take out Piat--I think that is better for both teams. The reason I like this is though EG (probable a little more) or Boki (probably a little less but still good) have comparble value as Mobley they are less a part of the current Rocket core. Still, again I doubt the Clips do this despite EG, Boki and KT being pretty solid value for Brand--because they would target a superstar more than just multiple quality guys.

    On the trade in midseason issue, Horry was traded the season of our first championship if I recall. We were not retooling but fine tuning through the trade, and Rudy thought Elliott was a better fit. Who knows what would have happened championship wise if Elliott didn't fail his physical. But the point being, someone like EG or KT in no way is a deal breaker right now if the right deal is there. There is a lot of similarities of the EG/Horry situations--inconsistent offense, lots of talent in a young tall 2nd year tweener, questionable intensity--and the almost went through Horry/Elliott trade would be a lot like a EG/Lewis trade that might have been seriously considered this offseason.
     
  5. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

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    Desert Scar,

    I can see you're a cat lover, but how can you just take him out of my proposal and then tell me it's not enough to get Brand?
     
  6. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Member

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    Because I have Boki in there, who I think has almost as much trade value as Cat, plus then I take out Piatowski. I think a EG, KT & either Cat or Boki type deal is pretty fair value for either Brand/Piat or just Brand--but again I don't think the Clips would trade Brand based on overall value so much as trying to land 1 big superstar scorer (someone like Carter, maybe Allen).
     
  7. GATER

    GATER Member

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    Hard Rock -

    My point about the pick was a little obscure so I'll restate it. Any future first round pick from the Rockets (especially one as far in the future as 3 years) is very likely to be a numerically high pick. The pick in and of itself does little to impact a trade IMO. It's a non-issue...window dressing...not a deal maker/breaker.

    Secondly, although your 3 way with Seattle looks good on paper, it has the same fatal flaw as any trade which includes Kenny Thomas.

    A KT trade during the season leaves the receiving team exposed to the fact the KT's contract expires at the end of the current season. Seattle just went through a tough negotiation with Lewis. Do you think they want to repeat this process?

    There are many more teams under the cap next summer than there were this past summer. I think Denver's $ (and possible starting position alongside of Hilario and Skita) would be very appealing to KT. Although Seattle (or any team receiving KT during this season) would have KT's Bird Rights, the Nugz, Jazz, Spurs and Wiz (among others) all have enough to outbid the Sonics/receiving team.


    As for the Rockets doing a S&T for KT next summer, he will become a BYC player making him hard to trade.
     
  8. YaoROY

    YaoROY Member

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    Other teams would offer something a lot more attractive to the Clippers. Your trade is not impossible, but that could only happen if all other teams don't want to get Brand through a sign-and-trade.
     
  9. themocitydon

    themocitydon Member

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    all the rockets need is a solid rebounder and they'll be all right. we dont need another super star on our team if kenny thomas, and eddie griffin play their roles on the team. although i can picture elton brand on our team, giving up cat, griffin, cato, and kt arent worth it. thats just messing up our team chemistry giving up other players for elton and barry or whoever else yall want on the rockets roster. but i'll tell you one thing, id rather have brand on my team than wallace. sheed better not throw no towels in yao's face like he did sabonis or yao would would have to result into using his crouching tiger hidden dragon style.
     
  10. WNBA

    WNBA Member

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    Taking into account that Clippers are dumbest in all tradings,drafts and managements, I think Rockets have a good chance to land him in. Brand is a very different Clipper. I like him.
     
  11. djkickass

    djkickass Member

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    His performance in the game vs Hornets proves everything. I would trade EG for Brand in a heart beat if $ works out.
     
  12. Deckard

    Deckard Blade Runner
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    I'm not quite sure why this needed another thread. There was a very good discussion of Rudy considering getting another PF in RocketFan85's "I have a feeling that RudyT is going to make a move to bring in a new PF... " about a week ago. Some of our veteran posters were getting after it. I threw out wishing we could get Brand and that I'd give up players I really liked to nab him. Cat, KT and Eddie for Brand and Piatkowski with picks from us if necessary. (I was thinking of the Chicago obligation... it's still out there) That thread's back on page 5 or 6 now if anyone is interested. Glad your still discussing it, Hard Rock. :)

    I thought Brand was worth a stud SG, a stud 3/4 swingman who could start for some teams, and Eddie- stud PF in the making (imo). Piatkowski fills the hole at SG if Cat's gone, but it's all obviously about Brand. He's just a perfect fit with this team. I said I thought it as likely as my wife giving me a Lexus for Christmas, but I'd still do that trade. I don't think it's out of the realm of possibility for Sterling to do it. Stranger things have happened.
     
  13. clippy

    clippy Member

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    That may well be true, but I'm telling you how other fans see your commodities. An offer of Mobley+Griffin for Brand is as insulting to us as Maggette+Wilcox for Francis is to you guys. If there's one guy I'd bet on the Clippers keeping, it's Brand.

    Sterling is a lousy owner, but the reports of his follies are greatly exaggerrated. He doesn't pay guys who don't produce, which, for the most part, has been everyone for the Clippers up until recent years. Manning was the one cornerstone we've had, and he was offered big money to stay. Was Sterling so wrong to let Mo Taylor go after he demanded a big contract? How about Kandi? (most Clipper fans have done a 180 on that one since the team has started winning without Olowokancer).
     
  14. clippy

    clippy Member

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    How about Kandi for Yao? :D
     
  15. GATER

    GATER Member

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    clippy -

    I personally don't think Brand is going anywhere and if the Clips were to trade Brand the Rockets would not be able to put the best offer on the table...but.....

    IMO, Mobley is better than Maggette. We could debate this at length but there is one overriding factor that makes Mobley more valuable in a trade. Cat is signed to a contract not much greater than the MCE and it lasts 2 season longer than Maggette's. (Player Option assumed for final year).

    Maggette will be a restricted FA after the 2003-2004 and will probably demand more than Mobley currently makes. All other things being equal, Cat has more trade value for this reason.

    Bottomline, I don't totally agree with your analogy that Cat + EG for Brand = CM + Wilcox for Steve. (Not to mention that EG is putting up much better #'s).
     
  16. Hard Rock

    Hard Rock Member

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    clippy,
    Derek Anderson, Rodney Rogers, and Mo Taylor didn't get their contracts and was forced to accepted the MCE when become FA.
    Lorenzen Wright was traded for draft picks.
    Brand, Miller, Odom, and Kandi all didn't get their extension in the summer. tell me Sterling isn't cheap.

    Deckard,
    actually I come up with this idea a few weeks ago and posted on many different threads here but not too many people saw it. so, please stop talking like I'm copying someone's idea. like I said at the begining, my purpose is to "start a rumor" I guess the more we talk about it the better right?

    themocitydon,
    I really don't understant you guys. many of you disagree just because Brand is a super star? you guys keep saying that the team is all set and we just need more "role players." how can I make you understand that Mobley doesn't want to be a "role player" and wanna be a star. Brand, on the other hand, is a super solid role player who somehow becomes a star. and I don't have Cato in my proposal, we need him to back Ming up. all I said is Mobley+Griffin+1 rd. pick for Brand & Piat. and then package Piat. & K.T. to Seattle for Brent Barry.

    Gater,
    I know K.T.'s contract is up next year but so is Barry. with D. Mason having a break up year the Sonics doesn't really need Barry. K.T. gives them a solid and physical 4 to bang inside so Rashard can play his nature 3 position. Piat. gives them a good replacement for Barry but with longer contract and able to come off the bench behind Mason.

    Desert Scar,
    Mobley has way more trade value than Nachbar period. if I had Griffin+Nachbar for Brand I'd be called crazy.


    you mean Yao's photograph?
     
  17. clippy

    clippy Member

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    Sterling is cheap, but using DA, Rogers, and Mo Taylor's contract rejections doesn't help your argument at all. Those guys weren't worth what they were asking for, and Sterling didn't pay them. Same for Kandi (who was looking for 80 million over six years .. sheesh). Brand, on the other hand, is worth such a contract. Sterling should have signed him last summer, but aside from hurting fan morale it's not a big deal as long as he signs him next summer, when he'll be a restricted free agent (like Odom and Miller).

    The easiest way to tell if a trade proposal sucks is to ask fans of other teams. No knowledgeable fan outside of Houston would think this is a fair trade-- as you proposed it, you get the two best players involved (Brand and Barry) and give up role players. No thanks!

    That said, I don't think y'all should mess with your team one bit. It's got a nice blend of inside and outside, and, given a year or two to gell, could definitely be a force in the league.
     
  18. don grahamleone

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    If I thought Brand would stay here, I would actually make the trade. I'm even a farts member!
     
  19. JunkyardDwg

    JunkyardDwg Member

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    What's the word I'm looking for here.....ungrateful!
     
  20. dfbreyes

    dfbreyes Member

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    Would it work financially? I mean can the Rockets offer Elton Brand a substantial amount next year?

    When does Glen Rice contract end?

    Kevin Garnett is too expensive. Tim Duncan might be a lock with the Spurs.

    If it there is a possibility, go for it. It's still one year down the road right?

    Remember when the Celtics had their championship years? They had Bird, McHale, and Robert Parish. Three solid players.

    If the Rockets can pull it off, count my vote.

    Of course, everything is wishful thinking and speculation and maybe I'm on drugs. Wake me up.
     

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