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Standing up for Islam

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by LCAhmed, Jul 25, 2016.

  1. LCAhmed

    LCAhmed Contributing Member

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    Alright, so I'm tired of reading all these things in the Debate about shaming Muslims and Islam. Yes the news shows a lot of negativity towards Islam, but when has the media ever not twisted the truth?

    I have lived my entire life a Muslim in the US, majority Houston (and most recently Dallas). I have never met a Muslim (or anyone else regardless of religion for that matter) in my life who I would even remotely call a terrorist. Are there people in this world who I do not like, absolutely. Are there Muslims in this world who I don't like, absolutely.

    My question in this thread is, has anyone personally ever met someone who was Muslim that gave them the impression they were one of these so called "terrorists" or "Jihadists" or whatever else people are slinging in this forum nowadays?


    Do people think that I'm a terrible person because I worship God as a Muslim? I know there are quite a few Muslims in the Clutchfans community, are we all people you despise? It's easy to talk down on something behind a keyboard, but is this something you've come to conclude through real world interaction, or are these things you've read online and seen on the news?

    I'm not a perfect person and I do not know everything, no even close, and I will never claim to be. I live my life doing what I can, and I hope that the way I live reflects my faith in a positive manner. If you're going to say I'm not a true "Muslim" because I don't do this or I don't do that, I'm happy you think you know enough to judge someone on something, especially when 90%+ who are judging are not ones who have experience in the subject.

    I'm fully prepare to get butchered, torn apart, hated, whatever you wanna say on this board. I can't stand here and let people continue to shame my religion without me saying something, it's not how I was brought up.
     
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  2. Cohete Rojo

    Cohete Rojo Contributing Member

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    They are called "takfiris" and even Salafi Arabia recognizes who they are.
     
  3. AroundTheWorld

    Supporting Member

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    Yes, several. I have had taxi drivers in various countries, who, when engaged in a friendly conversation, said things I could not believe I was really hearing. Wildest conspiracy theories (usually involving Israel and the USA), saying it was good to kill "blasphemists" in Pakistan, etc. etc. etc.

    No. Whatever makes you happy.

    No.

    Enough real world interaction to conclude that there is terrifyingly widespread support among Muslims for beliefs that are absolutely incompatible with humanitarian values.

    You shouldn't be defending your ideology. You should strive to make it better, and to work out where you differ from those you feel are tainting your religion, and how you can show the world - e.g., by being a good, tolerant person - that you are nothing like these people.
     
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  4. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    Islamist extremists don't move to the US (heart of western culture). They hate western culture. But to answer your question, yes, when my work takes me over seas, I have met many.

    Also personal antidotes is a ridiculous way to prove a point one way or the other.

    BTW, 51% of American Muslims believe Sharia should be law of the land. At least according to this poll of 600 American Muslims.
     
  5. Buck Turgidson

    Buck Turgidson Mineshaft Enthusiast

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    Man I wish there was an antidote for certain personalities.
     
  6. tallanvor

    tallanvor Contributing Member

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    anecdotes. happy?
     
  7. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    If you believe Islam is "the truth" then how can you NOT believe that sharia should be the law of the land?
     
  8. Trader_Jorge

    Trader_Jorge King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    [Premium Post]
    My biggest problem with Islam is the treatment of women. LCAhmed, do you condone this treatment? I approach this question from a standpoint of learning, not of confrontation.

    I think Islam is attacked more than normal because the countries that oppose America's foreign policy happen to be Muslim-majority nations. So in many cases Islam is dragged down in the discussion because the background of the "enemy" or terrorist is Islamic, although the deepest source of the problem is the foreign policy dispute, not necessarily the religious differences. There are instances however in which the deepest source of the problem is in fact a perversion of Islam where terrorists believe they are killing in the name of Allah. Unfortunately, the perverts of Islam, while small in % terms, are vast in number, because there are so many Muslims on earth. This is a problem as well.
     
  9. rockbox

    rockbox Contributing Member

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    I haven't met any terrorists. The percentage of the 1.6 billion muslims is pretty small. However, it is obvious there are enough of them to make it crappy for the rest of the world especially when they are willing to blow themselves up in the process. I do think the muslim community, like the black community and the police force, could do a better job of policing their own. Change only happens when that community admits there is any issue. It took Lyndon B. Johnson, who was a white guy from a very racist state, to push desegregation and really speed up the reduction of racism. Racism is not gone, but it is a lot better than it once was. I think the black community needs to tell their kids that shooting each other doesn't help anyone. I think the police need to realize that there are bad cops and need to punish them for bad behavior. I think muslims need to tell other muslims that killing people and treating women like crap is immoral and wont' get them into heaven.
     
  10. LCAhmed

    LCAhmed Contributing Member

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    I appreciate you answering all these questions. I apologize that you have met these people who gave you this representation.

    Absolutely.

    I definitely agree with the extremists not moving here. I can debate the personal viewpoints with you mainly because sometimes specs or facts aren't everything (weird to say), but I'll leave that be. The Sharia Law thing is to me an interesting case, I agree with a lot of Sharia law, but I also disagree with things in Sharia Law. I think a lot of people who don't like Sharia Law may not have read a lot of the laws and rulings involved, or are just focusing in a key things they do not agree with.

    Also, I'm sorry you've met people who have given you that representation.
     
  11. Haymitch

    Haymitch Contributing Member

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    I think the only negative things I've heard from Muslims who I know in real life and who I consider friends are some anti-gay remarks. Not violent remarks but just more like "that ain't right" - similar to what I hear from many Catholics, Baptists, etc. - and also far more tame than what I used to hear from east Texas folk. Still dumb to say, but friends are allowed to say meaningless, dumb things to one another: that's what confirms you are friends.

    They have told me some stories from their home-country which are disturbing: police brutality/corruption (though that has nothing to do with their religion), and some instances of men grabbing/groping women when the men felt the woman did something out of place (likely does have to do with their religion). This sucks and needs to stop, but I'm not sure that "moderate Muslims" apologizing for it on Clutchfans will go very far towards that end. I really have no idea how to fix attitudes towards women other than time, but I'd put that more on the people of a given country than on people who adhere to Islam. (As a libertarian I'm not a fan of making it the US's policy to try to shape the culture / internal politics of another country.)

    And yes, while personal antidotes or anecdotes aren't worth much, I've never known any Muslim in my life who in any way gave me reason for concern. They've met my family; I've met theirs; all is well.
     
  12. LCAhmed

    LCAhmed Contributing Member

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    If you are referring to belittling or beating women, no. As that is not the way of Islam, if anything that is a cultural thing to do with region, not religion. Islam teaches us to respect women as equals. Here is an excerpt as I do not want to butcher with paraphrasing.

    "A man came to the Prophet and said, ‘O Messenger of God! Who among the people is the most worthy of my good companionship? The Prophet said: Your mother. The man said, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man further asked, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your mother. The man asked again, ‘Then who?' The Prophet said: Then your father."



    I agree with you on this. It would definitely need to be someone from within the community to really take control of the situation. Sucks that a few bad apples can ruin the whole crop.
     
  13. LCAhmed

    LCAhmed Contributing Member

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    I appreciate your response. While it may not change the world overnight, I at least want to do what I can where I can. And seeing as I spend a lot of time on this forum, I figured I'd try here first. If everyone starts calling a blue wall red, people will eventually believe the wall is red.
     
  14. T_Man

    T_Man Contributing Member

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    [​IMG]

    Can't believe we are on the same page....

    Good feedback

     
  15. BigDog63

    BigDog63 Member

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    My question in this thread is, has anyone personally ever met someone who was Muslim that gave them the impression they were one of these so called "terrorists" or "Jihadists" or whatever else people are slinging in this forum nowadays?

    I have known and been in contact with many many Muslims here in the U.S. With only 1 exception, they were all the kindest, humblest, most unassuming group of people one could imagine. The one exception was an outspoken person who spoke at a Friday prayer meeting I had been attending, and immediately afterwards almost all of the other attendees came over to me and apologized to me for him.

    My experiences outside the U.S., primarily with Turkish people, were similar.
     
  16. Deji McGever

    Deji McGever יליד טקסני
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    The short answer is yes, but not in the US. They aren't hard to find in Ramallah or Cairo.
     
  17. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    Not hard to find Germans who use the Jews word in a detoriated means privately,how do I know , bc some thought I would be pleased to know . Still the exception .
     
  18. okierock

    okierock Contributing Member

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    There is a guy that owns a coffee shop in Fort Worth, very nice guy and has never said a single thing that would concern me. There is a book store above his shop and you can actually hear conversations from the coffee shop very clearly. I overheard a conversation with him and another person I assumed was a customer and it was scary. I don't know if he was just being nice to the crazy guy but he didn't talk him down and it was very hateful to Americans and westerners in general.

    I no longer trust him.

    Is it true that in Islam you that it is morally acceptable to lie to a non believer?
     
  19. Exiled

    Exiled Member

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    depends on who you ask..,religious lies took place in history to convert Blacks,natives and such to serve the white masters ..and it was't Related to muslim

    For Sunni , unless someone pointing a gun at you,you don't Lie.

    For Shiea you can ask Mathllom, or Rocket0. or use Wikipedia
     
  20. LCAhmed

    LCAhmed Contributing Member

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    Under certain circumstances, that is the ruling yes. The term non-believer though is a bit complex, as some would say non-Muslims are non-believers, while others would say those who do not believe in God are the non-believers.

    I believe the situations for a Muslim to lie to a non-believer and it be moral are very specific and would be more for like war time.
     

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