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Stan versus Jeff and little franchise adjustments that add up

Discussion in 'Houston Rockets: Game Action & Roster Moves' started by Desert Scar, Jun 2, 2006.

  1. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

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    I got to thinking last night how analogous the Heat and Rockets are in many ways. Miami for two years have been building around Wade and Shaq, like the Rockets with Tmac and Yao. These are two of the three teams with the most formidable swingman/center star/superstar combinations the last 2 years (the other team being SA, as soon as they admit Duncan is really a center). Other random tidbits, they also both have old Georgetown once excellent now back-up centers and of course a Van Gundy who had been captains most of the time.

    Now despite similar starting points 2 off-seasons ago, results are a completely different story. Miami has been one of the best teams in the league for 2 years. Now think about this:

    -The Rockets in all likelihood could have landed Walker versus Swift last offseason.
    -The Rockets had James Posey and let him go for a 4 year MLE (tried to replace him with Adrian Griffin and Pike to save a few bucks). You can of course pencil in Kenny Thomas instead of James Posey for MLE type money (another team was not going offer KT significantly over the MLE and we had a matching option).
    -The Rockets probably could have landed Mike James and Damon Jones, instead of the sometimes effective but always injury prone Sura, and Charlie Ward (who wasn't effective in a very favorable SA situation the year before) before the offseason before last. (Of course Jones is a bit of a mixed bag, be he is good off the bench and he nails the open 3)

    So overall it is very probably the Rockets starters easily could have looked like:

    C: Yao
    PF: Walker
    SF: Tmac
    SG: Posey
    PG: James

    OR:

    C: Yao
    PF: KT (a lot like Haslem)
    SF: Walker
    SG: Tmac
    PG: James

    With primary subs of Howard, Deke, Damon Jones, etc.

    You could also added in some other low cost guards or swingmen who have changed teams from last offseason to now. Even if we still missed out on the Michael Finley prize (Houston would have been much more attractive with these other moves) there was still Gary Payton, Flip Murrary, Rasual Butler, Mo Evans, Tim Thomas, Earl Watson, Devon Brown, Smush Parker, etc who have been picked up as FAs and have helped their teams. Not great players, but good players for roles.

    Thus to me with just a little better judgments over a number of situations--I am not talking about finding diamonds in the rough here like T. Parker, Manu or Josh Howard late in drafts where retrospect is a wonderful thing--the Rockets would have had some fine teams for 2 years. In fact I don't think you could do much worse, or be any more disappointing, with a franchise starting with two 1st or 2nd team all NBA players. But I guess JVG has one more year to fix things. SVG and the Heat have been light years better in supporting their big 2, why don’t we bring Stan in the fold and let him show us how it is done.
     
  2. Outlier

    Outlier Member

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    I don't think JVG had anything to do with the letting go of Posey.

    CD had always wanted Mike James, and I'm sure he tried to pursue him the year we landed Sura/ Ward. But Mike James probably wanted elsewhere.

    This is all moot point. I don't think JVG had a hand/or disagreed with/in any of those moves.
     
  3. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

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    James went to Milwalkee for less a little less than we paid Sura per year and for one less guarranteed year. Given Milwalkee was a less promising franchise, not his hometown, and offered a lesser contract (w/more state taxes I assume) it looks like our decision to not bring James here. We most probably could have landed both James and Damon Jones with the contracts offered to Sura and Ward--e.g., splitting the MLE and using favorable years/player options.

    True, I don't know if it is JVG, CD, Les or some combination, but someone needs to take responsibility. Personally, I would say chief influence was likely JVG, I don't think they brought him in without him having the most influence in shaping the roster, though it probably was a shared activity.
     
  4. OddsOn

    OddsOn Contributing Member

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    Not to beat a dead horse but for the umpteenth time JVG does not take part in player selection. He may give his opinion if asked about a certain player but he has said in more then one interview that CD and the front office are responsible for player signings, trades, etc.

    But I beleive that everything happens for a reason. And our fate this past year, although dissappointing to many fans, allowed Yao to realize that he can be the dominant player we have all been hoping for. Which in turn should allow T-Mac better looks and let him be the second option behind Yao.
     
  5. smoothie

    smoothie Jabari Jungle

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    so the point is that we will be going to the finals next year?
     
  6. giddyup

    giddyup Contributing Member

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    After watching the heat dismantle the Pistons tonight... this thread really hurts!

    How did the Heat keep improving? Who did the use in trades to get some of those guys? The only name that pops into my head is Rasual Butler...
     
  7. kaleidosky

    kaleidosky Your Tweety Bird dance just cost us a run

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    Walker blows...he's being masked and covered on that team, but we'd be more upset if we had him..
     
  8. ubigred

    ubigred Contributing Member

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    Pat Riley = master motivator (multiple championships)

    JVG = "a player should not be in the NBA, if he has to be motivated for a game 7"
     
  9. Rocket River

    Rocket River Member

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    I don't think JVG is a motivator
    I have said as much
    [I often feel like our players come out of the half looking
    more like a well beaten dog than a greyhound]

    I think Stan next to him on the sideline would work wonders

    JVG coaches one what SHOULD BE not WHAT IS
    Players should this
    Players should that
    OK . . . . THEY AREN'T NOW WHAT Mr. No Excuses?
    I think Stan is better at dealing with things on the fly

    Jeff maybe the better TECHNICAL coach
    Stan is obviously the better INTUITIVE Coach

    If the ball game was chess . . . I think Jeff would be king
    but
    their are so much variations and moods to deal with
    Jeff does not do it well


    Rocket River
     
  10. Desert Scar

    Desert Scar Contributing Member

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    He has his faults, yes, but I'd take him over JH or Swift in complimenting our team, and credit Miami for recognozing his worth on a team with many similar components. With KT or Posey (whomever you wanted to keep), and Tmac around him filling out the 2-3-4 spots, we could cover for him defensively (though AW is a good rebounder) just like Miami does with some combination of Haslem, Posey and Wade.

    Again, he has his faults, but Walker has a much better overall game and is a better clutch performer than many think (even media are missing it, forgetting he co-carried Boston deep in the playoffs and has played more playoff games than most vets, including McDyess for instance), and some smart guys here last year were acknowledging as much when he became one of our major viable options (admittedly I was lukewarm at first--prefered SAR than Swift over him--but warmed up to the idea of Walker, certainly more than for one Donyell Marshall). The Rockets and their staff should have had a better handle on Swift versus Walker fitting in with the team.
     
  11. StupidMoniker

    StupidMoniker I lost a bet
    Supporting Member

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    It might have something to do with Wade and Shaq being healthier than Yao and TMac. When they went down in the playoffs last year the Heat fell apart just like the Rockets did this year. The fact is that when Yao and TMac were playing the Rockets had one of the best records, and when they were injured the team built around them turned to crap. If we had Walker in place of Swift and James in place of Alston, they still would have turned to crap, only with more defensive suckiness than offensive.
     

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