St. John's vs. Kincaid

What is your point? I went to a typical public high school and my graduating class has degrees from MIT, harvard, stanford, Upenn wharton, cornell, etc...

Trust me its not like if OP's children take on a full AP courseload at a public school it is going to be "too easy" for them. They will be adequately challenged and many of their peers in the AP classes will be just as smart or smarter than them.

So what is the advantage of a private school? Not student body because full AP courseload at a good public will surround you with kids who are just as smart.

Not college admissions because if you have a high class rank at a public school (which OP's child probably would get considering he is wanting them to go to kinkaid.") then you have just as good of a chance of getting to a top school.

Its not worth the money saved over a good public like lamar or cinco ranch

 

fixed

 

I've always found that the opposite, but it doesn't really matter. You're going to have a mix at both schools either way.

Really, the main thing you should ask is; is your child suited for these kind of schools? My first two years I was absolutely miserable. I had come from a similar sort of school size wise (About 80 people during middle school), so it wasn't that. I just couldn't find a niche at the school until my junior year, and I spent a good time while at the school just loathing it and questioning why I was there. This should be the main priority to be honest, and your child will appreciate it for you later in life. This shouldn't be too much of a problem if you're entering your child for middle school though. A lot of the closest relationships at the schools or just during life in general is started at a younger age, and it probably helped a lot of kids transition into high school having some sort of familiarity with their surroundings.

 

Yes, every school will have students going to Ivy League school. However, SJS has a very high percentage, I dont have the stats but I would say it is likely tops in the city.

Like I said on the previous page, my sister went to what is considered to be among the best public high schools in the city (HSPVA). She took a full AP course load and was ranked #1 in her class. She felt that the school was a joke and not challenging. She transferred to an average private high school because of this and is no longer even in the top 10% of her class. But she felt it was the right move because she thought she would be completely unprepared if she went to HSPVA for 4 years. Obviously, anyone with a 5.0 and good sat scores are gonna get into great schools regardless of where they go. However, at a school like SJS or Kinkaid, they are sending kids finishing in the bottom 1/3 of their classes to excellent schools.

Having AP classes does not equate to college preparedness.

 

If those same kids who you talk about "in the bottom 1/3 of the class at kinkaid" went to a public school they would probably get accepted into the same Colleges. It is about the student, because colleges do not hold it against a kid if they could not afford/ didn't live in the right neighborhood when it comes to admissions.


And about your sister at HSPVA that school must be ****ty.

 

I went there too. Then I went to the top school in my field (playwriting) which was NYU. I was at the top of my class there and was well prepared for college, as was my high school girlfriend who went to Yale for undergrad, then Cornell for grad school and then wrote three critically acclaimed novels and was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. Another high school ex went to Rice and now runs the southern bureau for the New York Times. A ton of people that were at HSPVA when I was went on to incredible academic futures and professional successes. And we all share the feeling that PVA was great college prep, maybe the best in Houston, because it prepared us both academically and in terms of encouraging creative thinking. Before going to PVA, I also interviewed at St. Thomas (since I was coming from one year at St. Vincent De Paul) where I got what was, at the time, the first perfect score on their entrance exam. I'm glad I chose PVA. I've taught at St. John's and I know great teachers at Kinkaid, but if I had kids I'd send them to HSPVA in a heartbeat. If they didn't want to go there, I'd send them to a Vanguard school as I attended Vanguard schools from 2nd-7th grade and got a great education at both of those as well, in addition to learning much more about the real world due to the diversity of those programs (and PVA) than I ever would have at a school whose student body is almost entirely white and rich not to mention spoiled.

 

Once again OP, if your children are some kind of geniuses you should send them to Exeter or Andover.


If they are just smart then they will do fine at public school

 

I think this is being overblown. It is not like private schools exclusively have rich kids. they all give out a fair share of scholarships to underprivileged kids. I would say the number was close to 20% at the school I went to. Its obviously not what would be at a public school but it is certainly there. they also tend to accept a disproportionate amount of minorities (particularly sjs) if only to appear more diverse because that is such a big knock on them.

Maybe HSPVA was a good school back when you went there (I assume it wasnt any time recently, you seem older), but that is no longer the case. My sister took French there and never learned a single word, they watched movies every day, often in Spanish because the teacher said it was "close enough." In English, she was reading books that she had previously read in 5th-6th grade. In math and science, the teachers often did not hold formal lessons or were far too often factually incorrect on many subjects. She literally did not have homework in any classes, none. Her specialty was dance and after spending close to 10 years at the Houston Ballet, she found their program fun but not challenging or disciplined. She ran into dancers that she knew previously and had been weeded out by the various dance institutions she had gone through.

If you do guest lecture at schools like you mention, I would recommend giving your old alma mater a call and see if they could use your help. I think it would surprise you to see dysfunctional the school has become. I have heard that they got a new principle that is attempting to turn things around, but I dont know how it has turned out since my sister no longer goes there.

It probably also doesnt help that the school looks like a prison, hell there are no windows!

 

I graduated from Kinkaid in 1993. I can say that St Johns had better academics at that time, but Kinkaid had more extracurricular activities. Alot has changed in 15 + years, Kinkaid has expanded their campus more.

Regarding colleges, Kinkaid has a great reputation for academics which goes a long way towards admissions' process.

In my opinion St Johns is # 1, Kinkaid # 2 for academics alone.

For overall experience, I'd probably choose Kinkaid.

 

I would like to add that the academic course work difficulty and the challenges presented upon me at a private institutional high school thoroughly prepared me for college. I went to Vanderbilt. I graduated top 1/3 in my class at Kinkaid. That year we sent a good number to Ivy League Schools, UT Plan II, Vandy etc..

 

For the record, you did not go to a *typical* public HS, at least not in HISD.

IIRC, a ballpark breakdown from a typical HISD HS is that 1/3 dropout, 1/3 graduate but do not go to college and finally the last 1/3 attend college. Half of that last 1/3 end up getting a 4 year degree.

From their website, I see that 98% of Saint John’s High School students attend a four year college.

I have an eight year old son. If he could get into SJ, I would do it in a heart beat. I would much rather him attend a school where 98% of the students plan on going to college, versus 33%. I would also be concerned about the 33% who will drop out.

 

1. Why are we comparing private school to public school? The OP has decided to send his kids to either SJS or Kinkaid. Public school is out. Forget it.

2. But, while you're comparing public schools to private schools, remember we're not talking about the typical Houston private school. I think you can have a debate as to which is better between an average private school and one of the best public schools. SJS and Kinkaid are the elite tier of schools in this city.

3. Finally, remember when you start hedging that 'the extra money isn't worth it,' these schools are very well endowed and they provide all kinds of financial aid to families in need. SJS published some figures on their financial aid history. Don't assume the OP will be shelling out a lot of dough for this education; he might be but who knows?

4. The main benefit I see to this kind of education is that your peer-group is talented and has high expectations for itself, which buoys the expectations of the individual student, has him shoot higher and succeed more. Growing up with neighbor kids with low expectations and generally not being a forward-thinking person myself, I didn't have many grand expectations for myself. But, in high school at Awty, I became good friends with a talented kid who had always expected to go to a top-10 college. So, I aimed higher along with him, went to a top school, a good business school and so on.

5. On the actual question, I choose SJS, but I don't see how you can go terribly wrong either way. If one school doesn't work out, transfer to the other. It's probably not too hard getting into one when leaving the other.

6. Finally, Awty is way awesomer than either of those schools. You're missing out.

 

ah crapz...you gots to start talking about how well endowed the schoolz is.

now everyone gonna be whippin it out...

 

How do you know? I could be Wooderson.

 

It may have been a few years since I graduated from PVA, but I'm sorry, your sister does not know what she is talking about.

First it sounds like she had no business being there -- half of the point is spending a disproportionate amount of your time in your art area. If that didn't factor into her calculus, then she shouldn't have been there in the first place.

"Unprepared" sounds like a personal problem. I can say I had no issues on preparedness in college, and nor did any of my friends from HS. If anything, developing the ability to effectively study while playing music 6-8 hours a day made me much more prepared for managing my own time in college.

Last, the school had a long standing policy of not disclosing rankings until the beginning of senior year -- she wouldn't have known if she was #1 in her class. I can't imagine that would have changed.

I moved to London about a year ago, and saw two of my high school classmates last week. One was in town on a business trip, working as a banker in New York. The other was touring Europe as part of a jazz quintet. I wouldn't have traded that diversity for anything.

As for the OP, they're both good schools, and I wouldn't say one is definitively better than the other. Why doesn't your son/daughter visit both and see which one feels more comfortable? Ultimately, that will be the place he/she will be most successful.

 

Hardest part of the whole conversation is testing and getting in.

 

No I went to a school in Katy ISD, and I think 91% of students went to college. But why does that even matter when the only people OP's kids will ever interact with are the basically the top 25% of smartest kids. They will literally never have any of the dropouts in their classes, its like they go to a completely different school.

OP's kids will be surrounded by intellectual equals and he will save thousands

 

The unfuriating drawback to private schools -- meddlesome parents. Got an email today by a parent complaining about the PK3 holiday program that will feature the kids singing "Santa Claus in Coming to Town" because it is too 'Christian.' Jesus is rolling over in his grave.