You can bet that if the Spurs would've had Steve Smith in the Laker series, it would've been a different series. The Spur team that played the Lakers was without DA OR Smith, so it's not like they're really as far from the Lakers as that series would seem to indicate. Some numbers on Smith -- career ppg: regular season--16.6, playoffs--18.8 career 3pt%: regular season--34%, playoffs--41%
Smith is a good player, and getting him was the best course of action SA could do, but he does not bring as much to the table as DA--especially given the Spurs already limited athleticsm. Further, playing guys like Smith and Ferry will open up the floodgates for other teams swingmen, and playing limited offense guys (e.g., Bowen if they get him or player like that) allows the other teams D to sag--especially with the new rules. You need guys that can play both and the Spurs don't have enough of them. Losing DA, Walker, Johnson, Elliot & Kerr and replacing them with S. Smith & Bowen (is this signing certain) + scrubs is a net loss. As it stand right now, LA > last year, Sac > last year, Phily > las year (barring another torrid stretch of injuries), SA < last year. Barring a major signing or trade by SA (bigger than Bowen) I don't see how anyone can argue with this. The Spurs will be one of the top 5 teams next year, but instead of being 1 or 2 they will be more like 4 or 5 and obviously farther away from title.
Of course, Daniels will be a starter now and younger, more athletic players like Dial, Stephen Jackson, Tony Parker, will be part of the rotation. A zone D with a Robinson and Duncan who don't have to drift out to cover opposing bigmen will help to alleviate concerns about the defense of Ferry and SSmith, as well as the liberalized handchecking rules. Smith still brings a lot to the table and isn't exactly dead yet or whatever. Um, no. AJ was already on his way out of town. His quickness is not what it used to be, which makes his inability to get off a jumper on his own all the more a liability. Walker was good for 5 points and 4 boards in 15 minutes a game. Not bad numbers, but the Spurs can pay someone $2 mil less to do that as the second reserve bigman. Elliott? His knees made him a nonfactor in the playoffs and may very well be the end of his career. The only true loss was DA, an athletic guard, but one who needs a lot of touches to be effective, reducing the amount of touches the higher % offensive players like Duncan and DRob get. DA's shot selection was definitely not the best last year. Too many 3 for 15 nights for my liking. SSmith will play within the offense, is wiser with the rock, can run an offense, and had carried a team before. He can play a "point forward" role offensively, allowing the Spurs to have two guards play off the ball and then he can defend the 3 defensively. The Spurs will still be able to run breaks. The advantage they have is that their bigmen can outrun most other bigmen in the league. Let's see, the Spurs take the team in the WCF that had a starting lineup of: 1 Porter 2 Daniels 3 Ferry 4 Duncan 5 Robinson and replace it with: 1 Daniels 2 Smith 3 Bowen 4 Duncan 5 Robinson and that's not an improvement? You are overestimating the 'losses' a tad and underestimating the 'gains' as well. ------------------
That former line up did not get them to the WCF, by the time they had to play with that team they only needed 2 wins and they had home court advantage against a reelling playoff rookie Mavs team. We also saw what happened to that team the next round, losing 4 rather non-competitive games. It was the team with DA that achieved the best record in the league and home court advantage, and might have won a couple games in the WCF if intact. The margin in the West was very close last year, just a few games and they go from 1st in the league to 4th in the league, and I think DA all-around game provided those wins. Again, there loses are more well-rounded players, their acquisitions are more 1-dimesional players--granted most of this is due to the lose of one single player. Smith is now too exploitable to trully provide such a substitute. The Spurs have tried similar players before--Ferry, Rifleman, etc., and deep in the playoffs such players can't get it done because the other teams can take them away leaving them ineffective (granted S. Smith used to be 2 classes better than those guys, but he isn't much different now). 4th in the league ain't bad, and that's just where I see the Spurs. And the real problem is the Lakers got better and the Spurs will have any even worse time trying to match up Kobe. IMO, the 6ers or Kings will have a better though also small chance to get over the Lakers.
So let's see...a lineup of Porter DA Ferry Duncan Robinson is better than AD Smith Bowen Duncan Robinson ? Sorry, don't see it. Any decent 2 guard in the Spurs system can average 15 a game. The problem with DA was that he needs more touches to put up those points than a SSmith. Also, DA was something like a -20 versus Bryant last season. SSmith was -10. Big deal, you may think, but for whatever reason, SSmith doesn't give up as much as DA to Bryant. The "exploitable" SSmith now has Duncan to work with inside and a zone defense and legal handchecking to help him defensively. The Spurs can even let him guard 3s if they want to. Of course, this assumes that somehow DA was a defensive monster, which was not the case. Um, no. SSmith is indeed still much different than those guys. Ferry? Person? That's fine. SSmith is a better fit at the two for the Spurs than DA. Especially with AD starting. ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net
Yes, Smith is better than those other guys, but I still think he now more is a shooting specialist than a multiple-threat player now. As for who is better against Kobe, though neither is a great match-up I would rather take DA. DA was probably the Spurs 1st guy to throw at him, Smith was probably the last guard or 3 the Blazers threw at him (after Pippen, Wells, Augman, maybe even Anthony). We will just have to see how well Smith will do against Kobe on a team with a lot less qaulity swingmen/guards than Portland has. I think the Spurs are going to have a lot more trouble with other guards besides Kobe too. If Bowen couldn't help the Heat provide even minimal resistance to Charlotte guards and Mashburn (even if he does sign with the Spurs???) I really don't think he will be an answer either. Time will tell, barring a much bigger move than getting Bowen, I expect the Spurs will be #4 in the league, with a greater likelihood of falling multiple positions than gaining multiple positions. I admit this isn't a risky take as when your near the top it is a lot easier to fall.
As long as they have the twin towers in the middle, the Spurs will be competitive. But Smith, though a solid player, is a slight downgrade. SA's potential starting lineup isn't much different (talent-wise) from the one that got them such impressive numbers this year. But I think depth is the real key, and I don't really see how the Spurs have necessarily improved themselves this offseason. Depends, though, on whatever moves they make between now and opening day. But DA/Smith, it probably doesn't matter last season. I really don't think the LA series would have turned out much differently. I give the SA fans I know credit; this is something they've told me. LA is the only real hurdle for SA right now, and until they find a way to solve that problem it'll be tough. Especially with, in my opinion, Sacramento sneaking up... ------------------ "Do you know what nemesis means? 'A righteous infliction of retribution manifested by an appropriate agent'. Personified, in this case, by a horrible c***: ME." - Brick Top, Snatch
Oh, Bowen sucks. He has lifetime 37% and %60 FG and FT (even around Zo and other good players the other teams focus on?). These figures are NOT likely to improve much because he is around 29. Even if the Spurs get him he won't make much difference, having a wing player like that hurts your offense so much no matter how good he plays D he has a net negative effect over extended minutes. That is why he did absolutely nothing in the playoffs when his team was getting schredded by offensive-minded small players. If he could have had a strong net positive effect-especially with Miami's wekaness defensively at those positions, you know Riley would have had him out there. I hate to give any ideas, but Shandon would help the Spurs far more than Bowen, that is the door I'd be knocking on if I were them. Or maybe the Spurs can lobby the NBA so that it is like football where Bowen can be in for D plays and Ferry can be in for O plays. [This message has been edited by Desert Scar (edited July 27, 2001).]
Scar -- Kerr, Elliott, Walker, and Johnson didn't even play much in the playoffs. They just weren't a factor during the year either. You can easily replace their contributions w/CBA talent. Basically you are replacing DA with Smith and Bowen (is it a given this guy is signing w/SA?). Those other guys really aren't worth mentioning. AJ and Porter both sucked bad in the playoffs this year. That's almost like saying the Rockets would suffer after '94 by losing Bullard, Brooks, and Jent. Those guys were easily replacable. There's no way the Spurs are worse than the 2nd best in the NBA, barring injury. The reason is Duncan alone can get them by any team in the playoffs other than LA. I think Sac improved, but Webber still doesn't step up in the playoffs, so that team will never be a threat. And don't even mention Philly, please.
No, the discussion is about whether or not the Spurs' projected lineup for next season be an improvement over last season. Last season's lineup over most of the second half of the season was: TP DA Ferry Duncan Robinson Of course, through most of the Mavs series and the WCF it was: TP AD Ferry Duncan DRob ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net
Big deal. It's obviously in Smith's best interest to get an extension now instead of in 2 years. Hardly surprising. Incorrect. Reports are that Bowen will sign in SA this week. Bowen has already refused the Miami offer and Portland just signed Patterson. ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net
What's wrong with adding a solid perimeter defender and spot up shooter to the starting lineup? With two shotblockers backing him up and him free to press and handcheck, I don't think this is as bad of a move as you want to make it out to be. ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net
When Bowen played with Mourning he shot 46% from behind the arc. He doesn't take a lot of free throws, so that % doesn't matter as much. What does matter is the point differential between him and whoever he guards. He completely shut down DA in the 2nd Spurs/Heat game last season...and now next season more defensive contact is allowed. A lineup of AD SSmith Bowen Duncan Robinson will be the NBA's best defense next season. Overlook that all you want, but with the rule changes defense is a more significant part of the game than in the last 2 seasons. ------------------ It's a cool site, this clutchcity.net
Yes FT in out itself isn't that important. But when you couple being a 60% FT shooter, with shooting less than 37% from field, that does not suggest he is a "good" shooter. At 30 years old, he doesn't stand to imporve it either. I don't doubt the accuracy of your Mourning statistic, but that wasn't for a long enough time to derive anything other than he was on a mild hot streak. NOTE: with Mourning and the rest of the crew with their season on the line, he shot 31% and 25% from the field and 3s in the playoffs, which was likely not included in the previous statistic. I didn't see him out there shutting down Mash or Davis either. Nothing is wrong with this move, nothing at all. From the Spurs perspective it is solid, just like adding Smith for DA was better than losing DA for nothing, adding Bowen leaves them better than not adding him. I just don't think the net effect of the signees versus loses will make them better than last season. Could be wrong, Bowen could turn into a dead-eye and Smith could regain his 27 year old form, but I just don't see it. Also, as far as Bowen specifically I am just saying if you think he is a good starting level NBA player I think you are mistaken. That is what I meant with "sucks", not that he is bad player, but he is not the kind of player you hope to plug in as a starter. I don't think you could find two or three NBA starting three's next year who are equal or worse than Bowen as an overall player, and quite a few backup threes who are better than him. Same can be said for AD. The PG and SF are two big question marks in terms of whether they have guys that can be effective as starters--where teams can better exploit weaknesses and limitations and therfore very well-rounded players are most valuable, and the Spurs need them to be effective starters to go head to head with the Lakers. I just see way more questions for the Spurs than the Lakers, and somewhat more than the 6ers and Kings. 4th in the league ain't bad, that is just where I see them. NOTE: unlike some others, I strongly believe they will be better than the Mavs next year. [This message has been edited by Desert Scar (edited July 30, 2001).]
I gotcha -- wasn't paying attention I think Derrick Anderson left because he didn't have a commercial Antonio Daniels has those TERRIBLE "Jim's" commercials, but wait a minute, I forgot that Avery left and he had those IBC commercials. So I guess DA didn't leave because he had no commercial. It's funny, I was in SA a week ago, and I still saw some bilboards with Avery's mug up there for IBC. Anyhow, I'm thinking lately that SA may be better than I expected, but it's gonna be ENTIRELY on Steve Smith's shoulders. That's assuming he stays and they don't trade him away because of his contract extension desires. Out of curiosity, is Antonio Daniels expected to start at PG next season? I'm wondering because it's odd that he didn't start last year, but it appears he is expected to this year. The Spurs will still have Terry Porter I assume, and I think that Tony Parker (French PG) may be the best of all of them. ------------------ "We must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom." --Kang
I believe that handchecking is still illegal. They're just going to cut out some of those stupid touch fouls. The kind of handchecking we saw from the early 90s to the lockout season is history. ------------------ Protrolls.com! The next person to post on my message board will win a prize! The ZRBucks!
Freak, I agree with you the primary lose is DA (this has been the main thrust of my argument), though Walker is not insignificant. Walker is especially vital if there is an injury to Dave or Tim for any length of time. I think a make a pretty good case Bowen isn't going to do much for them, even if he signs. They would be much better off trying to get Shandon. I don't know why you discount Phily. They had a great record all season long and they played the Lakers better than anyone else in the playoffs. They also did all these things with more injuries than any other playoff team. They resigned everyone and such injuries should heal, they are going into next season as the second best team. We will agree to disagree about Sac. Again, only a couple of games seperated them from the Spurs last year. And adding Bibby with an improving Peja & Turkg, I like them as the 3rd best team, with SA 4th. But finally, who is 2nd, 3rd, and 4th doesn't make a lot of difference because the Lakers increased the gap. Given the Lakers' signings, and Spurs defections, and the way the Lakers manhandled the Spurs in the playoffs, I don't see how an objective person could view the Spurs as any where near the Lakers. [This message has been edited by Desert Scar (edited July 30, 2001).]
latest developments in san antonio... steve smith is already beefing with spurs management. he wants an extension on his contract. spurs officials say no. smith's agent says that the spurs may have to ship smith elsewhere if they aren't willing to deal. spurs say they are willing to resign smith after his 2 years are up, but absolutely WILL NOT give him an extension right now. oh the drama and san antonio. also..... bruce bowen IS NOT a lock to come to san antonio. the spurs can only offer $700,000. miami can offer - i believe - 2.5 million. portland is also said to have interest. bruce is said to favor san antonio at this point because they can offer him a starting job. however, he has not closed his options. reports say bruce will decide this week.
i guess bruce and steve smith don't have "any class" either? lord knows if you're not pro-spur-fanatical you don't have "class".
Hold up, why wouldn't AD be in the first lineup? AD DA Ferry or whomever you put here Duncan Robinson I think it's kindof a wash -- How come San Antonio has such a fascination for Bruce Bowen? He's TERRIBLE offensively, and I wouldn't say that his defense is that much better than average either. I mean, he's a solid defender, but it's not like he's Shawn Marion or Eddie Griffin. Spurs will be 6th seed in the West, I predict. ------------------ "We must move forward, not backward, upward not forward, and always twirling, twirling, twirling towards freedom." --Kang
