Welcome back search option, we missed you old friend! We promise to use you for good, instead of evil!
RM and MrSpur, I never said the Spurs didn't do well <b/> given the conditions forced upon them. </b> But that isn't the debate (or at leats my debate), which is whether the Spurs are closer or farther from a ring from last year or before the offseason started. Of the 3 best teams in the West last year, I hold the Lakers and Sac are better, the Spurs (to little fault of their own) are worse. MS, If you can't see how DA and A. McKey at the 2 & 3 around the twin towers behind them is worlds tougher than Smith and Bowen at both ends of the court then I can't help you. McKey is like a more athletic version of Mario who was absoletely key to your 1 title run (along with another guy who was very good both ends-Elliott). You also act like you have the 27 year old Smith rather than the brittle, slow, 1-dimesional 30something shadow of him. It obviously would have been a big stretch and maybe not realistic to get McKey--but I think the Spur's needed a player of his impact to really threaten while keeping their 3rd best all-around player (DA). They didn't do either and have more specialized players instead. That works fine in the regular season, but you need all-around guys playing heavy minutes to get by late in the playoffs. Oh, I have nothing against AD. But to expect a guy who has been in the league quite a few years without starting to all of sudden be a consistent performing heavy minutes starter at a different position (especially one where ball distribution is key) is asking quite a lot. Especially with 2 other newcombers as starters and a one of them has been fire-tested exactly zero times (in fact played very poor in the playoff minutes he got when his team was getting killed by opponents wing players).
Desert Scar: i'm glad you picked up the torch where i left it the bottom line, as you have pointed out so well, is that the spurs are a worse team this year than last. as an addendum, you're right about the fact that they would have been much, much better and had a much better chance of defeating the lakers if they could have retained DA, samaki, elliot, and gotten mckie. of course, mr spur will say that the spurs got the players they wanted. like i said, i'll be collecting my tickets after the spurs' 15th loss this year.
like i said, i'll be collecting my tickets after the spurs' 15th loss this year. I assume you mean 25th, which still won't come close to happening. I still don't see how anyone can say the Lakers are better, and the Spurs are worse. Would you honestly not trade Derek Anderson, Avery Johnson, and Samaki Walker for Steve Smith, Bruce Bowen, Tony Parker, Stephen Jackson, Cherokee Parks, and Mark Bryant? And are the Lakers were probably better off with Horace Grant than Mitch Richmond. Richmond is a good outside shooter, but is fading, and won't even get to start. And now the Lakers have the same weakness they had in the past against Western power forwards. Walker is lazy, and won't produce much. Horry can't give too many minutes without getting injured, and he isn't capable of banging with the West's premier PF's all season long. Grant had a disappointing regular season, but he at least had the veteran experience and ability to step it up on both ends of the floor in some games when they really needed him. I doubt you get that out of Walker or Horry. I'll make this prediction right now: the Spurs will win 60 or more games next year. The Lakers will struggle to reach 57.
Ah, I love being right. The Spurs are toast. They have no future. If they do even do better than the fourth seed, they will still be destroyed by the Lakers. Kobe is going to embarass Steve Smith, while Duncan and Robinson might manage to hold Shaq below 40 points. The Kings, Mavs, and Blazers will all likely be better than the Spurs. And let me say, I expect the Rockets to at least split the season series, if not win it. You guys do realize that despite the addition of Bowen, the Spurs are still the softest team in the league. In fact, by adding Steve Smith, they have become even softer. Save Mario Ellie, they have been perhaps the softest team in the league since Rodman left. At least Anderson added some heart to that team. Now they have heartless D-Rob, complimented nicely by heartless Smith. Good night San Antonio.
The Spurs have improved themselves defensively and offensively this offseason. At the 2, Smith is a much better fit for SA than Anderson. At least Smith is a proven playoff performer who has carried a team to the playoffs with his offense before. I would've preferred the Mercer/Artest rumored deal, but sobeit, for the next 2 years and cap space in 2003 Smith is just fine. Overall, team defense has been improved significantly. If some of you want to argue that Porter/DA/Ferry is a better starting perimeter tandem than AD/Smith/Bowen, go right ahead...you'll see the error of your ways soon enough. The Spurs now have more size on the bench to backup the frontcourt, a definite problem of last season. With the new defensive rules, SA is going to be tougher to beat than ever. Some of you act like these changes aren't important, but the changes of 2 years ago definitely had an impact on the game, giving the edge to more athletic perimeter players. As I understand it, handchecking is back, or at least greater defensive contact will be allowed. That, coupled with the scrapping of illegal defense as we know it and players now free to defend sections of the court is going to be rather significant for a team with two shotbloackers as SA. You can make a case for Sacto, but Dallas and Portland better than SA??? As for 'soft', Sacto is just as soft as SA then. Bowen, a second team all-NBA defender who plays physical D is known as 'soft' now. Why? Well, when you are talking out of your ass, I guess that sounds like a good thing to say. Oh well, The Cat gets it. Defense does matter and its importance was just turned up a notch thanks to NBA Commissioner Jerry Colangelo...er, David Stern. It will be tough going for players like Anderson who rely on their slashing ability, yet are not the dominant type of perimeter player who can score at will, next season. His propensity to take bad shots will just compound the situation.
As for the 'loss' of AJ and Elliott, both were not a major factor in the Spurs second half last season and into the playoffs. With the Bowen and SJackson signings, the Spurs have definitely taken care of that 'loss' and then some. Elliott is talking to the Spurs about a color job on their broadcasts. He's just about officially retired.
All that means nothing if they don't have any heart. Sure, they might put together a nice regular season record, but once the playoffs start, they won't be able to handle the pressure. After their first loss, they will fold. That's what heartless teams do.
After their first loss, they will fold. That's what heartless teams do. Just like 1999 right? And no, Mario did not make that team. By the way, I love your logic here. You connect heart to the playoffs, saying teams without it can't handle the pressure. And you say that Derek Anderson had heart, but Steve Smith has none. Steve Smith's Career Playoff Average: 18.8 pts, 3.5 reb, 39 minutes 2001 Playoff Average: 17 pts, 4.3 reb, 40.7 minutes Derek Anderson's Career/2001 Playoff Average: 7.7 pts, 2.7 reb, 27 minutes Yes, I know Derek Anderson was hurt in game 1 of the Mavs series, and was not 100% in those two Lakers games. So let's take a look at the games in which he was totally healthy: Derek Anderson's Career/2001 100% Healthy Playoff Average: 11 pts, 3.8 reb, 34 minutes Which one of those is heartless again?
Actually, Mario DID make the difference. They started that year off 6-8, and turned it around after Mario started getting in their faces. Mario was the heart of that Spurs team. If not for him, they might not have even made the playoffs that year. Smith has put up nice numbers, but he won't change anything when the Spurs start to fold under the pressure. The Spurs would be better this year if they started Mario Ellie, instead of Smith. But of course, they can't.
It's obvious you haven't played many team sports, ZRB. The "get in their face" argument is ridiculous. It's more a distraction than anything else, to tell you the truth. For example, do you really think Charles Oakley criticizing Vince Carter in the papers this year was the difference in winning and losing that series? Do you really think that David Robinson's turnaround was because he was afraid of Mario Elie getting in his face? Robinson knew he was playing poorly to start the season. The Spurs as a team knew that too. Do you honestly think they didn't care until Mario Elie told them? The Spurs would be better this year if they started Mario Ellie, instead of Smith. Perhaps I should put this in my signature... too funny!
Stephen Jackson can play 3 position. He was Mr. Basketball in the state of Texas . Any way He will play because his versatiltysp . He can flatout Hoop. Oh I know him from high school he played with my cuz and they won the state title
So you are denying that Ellie provided the Spurs with grit and heart that they lacked? Grit, and heart, that they now lack again. He set an example for the rest of the Spurs to follow, and they won the title because of it. But throw all that out, and you still have an aging David Robinson, an aging Steve Smith, no point guard, and an offensively challenged scrub surrounding Tim Duncan. Duncan will carry the Spurs to a good record, but he simply won't be enough in the playoffs.
So you are denying that Ellie provided the Spurs with grit and heart that they lacked? I am denying that he was the difference maker. You could put any one of a handful of decent SG's on that Spurs 1999 team and they would've been as or more dominant, assuming they fit in team chemistry.
The Cat, i'm ashamed of you... how can you reasonably compare the post season #s of steve smith and derek anderson? i mean, i know that you know that DA has only been to the playoffs one time - this past season. and i know that you that steve smith has been at least 7 or 8 times in his career. yet you conveniently left that out - making it sound like DA and SS have been to the playoffs an equal or even COMPARABLE # of times. talk to me in 7 years, after DA has played in more than one round. that's downright shameful, you know better than that.... as for samaki walker, you know damn well that he's a better player than ho grant. ho grant didn't play that many minutes anyways - esp. in the playoffs. samaki can do better than that, and he's younger. plus, horace grant wasn't responsible for defending tim duncan. neither will samaki walker be responsible for that. it will be robert horry again. yes, the same robert horry that you say is not consistent on both sides of the court for extended periods of time. so tell me this, if he's so inconsistent, how was he able to COMPLETELY NEUTRALIZE tim duncan in the playoffs (esp. games 3 and 4)? and as for that trade, hell no i would not have done that trade. all the spurs have done is swing from one end of the spectrum to the other. now, they have 1. a sh1tload of scrubbish big men, still no legitimate point guard, 2. an old, slow, non-defensive shooting guard (steve smith), 3. a 2nd year 2/3 that couldn't garner serious #s on a terrible, terrible, terrible new jersey nets team, 4. a terrible, no shooting 3 (bruce bwen), who, btw, is not the defensive player you think he is. re: bowen. i guess you missed him getting torched by baron davis, along with every other heat "defender". i guess you also don't recognize that these awards are not always indicative of the true player. remember scottie pippen of houston rocket fame received all defensive honors. that was the same pippen that was REPEATEDLY torched! but he was called all-defensive. whatever... 5. no creator from the perimeter. you and Mr. Spur keep saying how with the new rules, there won't be a need for perimeter creators. bullsh!t. why is kobe so important to the lakers? is it because of his outside shot or his creative ability??? will he now become pointless because of the new rules??? hell no! why? because penetrating perimeter players draw the defense and free up the shooters and trailing cutters to the goal. don't dismiss the utter importance of the penetrator just because the spurs no longer have one. IN ADDITION: 6. the rule changes that you preach so much about helping the spurs almighty defense will also affect the spurs offensively. the hand check, post shadowing, etc. will ALL be applied to the spurs, as well. let's not forget, this. i'm going to enjoy watching teams shadow tim and dave and still be able to run out to the shooters THAT CANNOT DRIVE. even if they DO drive, handchecking will slow their slow asses down. Mr. Spur: very nice how you didn't respond to the contradictory quotes you have blurted out. very nice how DA was the best SG the spurs have had since Ice before, yet now is worse for the spurs than an aging, no defending steve smith. i guess steve smith is the best SG the spurs have had since Ice now, huh? puh-leeeze. you have just discredited yourself even further. back to the #s... 7. The Cat, how can you say that the lakers have not improved? you even went so far as to say that they are going to be worse!! you attempt to discredit mitch richmond by saying that he won't play much. GUESS WHAT??? HE DOESN'T HAVE TO PLAY MUCH!!! all he has to do is come off the bench for 10-15 minutes and spread the defense. he is steve smith, basically. one big difference, though. on the lakers, he's a 10 minute bench player. on the spurs, steve smith is a starter. now you tell me who is the stronger team??? i already told you how samaki is an upgrade over grant. plus they added lindsey hunter as a 3rd pg. they still have the option of re-signing rider, as well.
I TOTALLY agree with you Verse, because for anyone to look at this Spurs team and say that they are not only as good but better than the team from last year is not being realistic. The Pacers were saying the same thing last year about the Eastern Finals Championship running through Indiana, and we all know that that was not the SAME CALIBER of team as the one that went to the 2000 NBA Finals. The same is so with the NEW Spurs of the upcomming season. The success of last year in no way translates to a successful next season when you have so many ? marks and "role players" that are forced to play BIG roles. The big downside to this off season for the Spurs is again they DID NOT sign any GOOD free agents that can come in a make an impact to beat the Lakers, and other teams in the West have gotten better!! Now i'm not a Lakers fan, but can anyone see ANY team that can beat the Lakers in a 5 or 7 game series? If not, the Lakers are going to win again!! I have said that the Spurs were the ONLY team in the West that HAD the tools to beat the Lakers last year in the playoffs...now i don't see the Spurs beating the Mavs in a 5 or 7 game series.
Mr. Spur, Or does Coach Pop better describe you? Where did you hear about Sean Elliot trying to get a broadcasting job with the Spurs? You know i have been watching WHAT you have been saying lately about the Spurs, and you seem to have an inside look at some of the moves before they are even announced. Okay since you have an inside track...answer this for me. Who told you Avery Johnson pissed off Duncan, and that was the reason for him being let go? How did you hear about the interest in SJackson or MBryant before they were signed, because i live in San Antonio and the talk was Bowen the whole time? Why is Jaren Jaskson STILL on the rooster, and Chris Carrawell was not on the Summer League team, but still getting a Spurs paycheck? You know Mr. Pop, you have a lot of posts on these threads that people can read over and use to DISCREDIT you, and saying that DA was the next best thing to the Iceman is one that you have yet to comment on...
i already told you how samaki is an upgrade over grant. That doesn't make it a fact. I view that as a significant downgrade. how can you reasonably compare the post season #s of steve smith and derek anderson? How can you reasonably say Derek Anderson has heart and Steve Smith doesn't? Come on verse, you know my methods around here by now. I follow people's lines of logic, realistic or not, so that my point can be understood. I know it is too soon to determine if DA will be a quality playoff performer. But it's also too soon, and contradicotry to facts, to say that DA has heart and Smith doesn't. If everyone else can use short-sighted statements (and false statements) to prove their point, I can reply with an opposing viewpoint using that same logic. I'm not saying DA doesn't have heart and can't perform in the playoffs after one year-- you know that's not my style. But, I will use his stats from this year to prove that anyone saying Smith has no heart and DA does is crazy. You understand my point? yes, the same robert horry that you say is not consistent on both sides of the court for extended periods of time. so tell me this, if he's so inconsistent, how was he able to COMPLETELY NEUTRALIZE tim duncan in the playoffs (esp. games 3 and 4)? Easy answer here: he didn't. i guess you missed him getting torched by baron davis I don't believe anyone out West he will guard, including Kobe Bryant, has near the speed of point guards such as Baron Davis. don't dismiss the utter importance of the penetrator just because the spurs no longer have one. Who was the Spurs "penetrator" in 99? You can't tell me Antonio Daniels and Steve Smith can't be as good in that department as Avery Johnson and Sean Elliott. By the way, DA was extremely overrated as a playmaker... he could not create his own shot for himself well at all. very nice how you didn't respond to the contradictory quotes you have blurted out. very nice how DA was the best SG the spurs have had since Ice before, yet now is worse for the spurs than an aging, no defending steve smith. i guess steve smith is the best SG the spurs have had since Ice now, huh? puh-leeeze. you have just discredited yourself even further. Very nice how we're being told that you can't change your opinion based on performance in games. he is steve smith You wish. they still have the option of re-signing rider, as well. Are you kidding me? Isaiah Rider? CHAMPIONSHIP CITY BABY!!! Now i'm not a Lakers fan, but can anyone see ANY team that can beat the Lakers in a 5 or 7 game series? I can see about 5-6 teams that could do that. now i don't see the Spurs beating the Mavs in a 5 or 7 game series. That's borderline insane. The Spurs utterly destroyed the Mavs in a 5 game series, without Steve Smith, Bruce Bowen, or Stephen Jackson. They didn't have your precious DA either. Now the Mavs have gotten worse personnel wise from that series, and the Spurs have gotten MUCH better, because they didn't have DA then at all. So is Dallas' "inward growth" and one year of playoff experience magically going to override the Spurs improvement in talent, the Mavs downgrade in talent, and the fact that they were dominated on both ends last year? How did you hear about the interest in SJackson or MBryant before they were signed, because i live in San Antonio and the talk was Bowen the whole time? I can answer this-- Bowen is obviously a higher priority player. Stephen Jackson was listed on the Spurs summer league team weeks in advance.
Cat, i just wanted to tell you the spurs suck. Rockets are where its at and if you cant realize that you go home and cry about how spurs couldnt even compete against the Lakers and made avery johnson go bye bye. sim some games you spur troll.
