Man, you are big on the non sequiturs. Just because someone is from a small market does not mean they don't get the hype. What? is Toronto a large market? Vince. Is Orlando...hmmm....Shaq, Penny, now TMac. How about Minn, that city that might get booted from baseball?. It is not always the city...some people just get hyped. Ming and Francis are hyped, but Hakeem never was. Hakeem never was because Robinson was the hype machine. Sure he deserved some. But Hakeem deserved more hype, and he proved it in 1995. <b>Defensive Sports Fanatics are Sad</b> It is telling seeing you come here saying Ginobilli is the best European and ROY candidate and stating facts about his contract without producing any links...like he is Kukoc with contract issues, yet no links that talk about it. Ironic how the Bulls drafted him as a 22yr old 2nd rounder and waited 3yrs, yet there was much hype following when his Italian League contract would run out. MrSpur You can only have it one way or another. Either back off your claim of him being the Best European, or show me the Kukoc links saying how the Best European couldn't get to the NBA last summer. This is a big world wide Internet...surely, if he is the best, you can find a link without me having to subscribe to the San Antonio's newspaper archives. He isn't the best, or we all would have know about your secret star last year or the yr before.
Oh great. Now when someone disagrees with your 'insight' they are defensive. What is truly sad is a bunch of people carrying on some weirdo rivalry that no one outside of their little circle jerk GAF about. No one had heard anything about Ming or Nachbar last year as well. Unlike you I actually keep up on what is going on with SA. Ginobili's contract kept him from being brought over last summer. According to you the Spurs had the MCE last summer. They didn't. I'm not the only one in this thread who has pointed out that Ginobili is regarded as the best player in Europe.
Oh no. Olajuwon was named to precisely one more NBA all-defensive first team than Robinson and was named DPOY exactly once more than Robinson. Despite the fact that Robinson entered the league at age 24 instead of 21 like Olajuwon and that he joined the league 5 years later and missed most of one season. That blocked shot record is only a longevity record. Had DRob entered the league two years earlier and not missed the '96-'97 season then Olajuwon likely would not have that title at all. How that translates into Olajuwon being a better defender only a true "homer" would know. Since you are big on these offseason awards... David Robinson "Is the only player in NBA history to be named to both an All-NBA Team and an NBA All-Defensive Team in each of his first seven NBA seasons (since the NBA started the All-Defensive Team in 1968-69)". Robinson was a much more versatile defender who could do more than come from the weakside and block shots. Olajuwon the great somehow needed double and triple teams to defend DRob in that series. Thank Boner Hill for his ingenious plan to not send a double on the post. As for Shaq, old worn down Olajuwon today doesn't have much of a chance either. After reviewing your 'argument' I feel likewise about anything you have to say.
That was the freaking MJ Bulls. Bill Wennington couldn't take a sneeze without someone reporting it. There was little hype surrounding Peja Stojakovic coming over and he was a near lottery pick in 1996. As for the contract issues I don't feel like wasting any money on some friggin' archives. I told you where to find that Sporting News article which discussed Ginobili in depth. Complain to them that it isn't online. Anyways, here you go... Note: Benetton was the team that Nachbar played for.
MrSpur, put down the coffee, man. I admire you defending your team and players... we do as well. But if you ran a poll of sports writers, players, or coaches in the League (or any combination of the three) as to who was the better defender, during their career, you would lose. Big time. Your just beating your head against a wall that won't give. Your gonna give yourslf a headache. David was a great player. So was Dream. The dream is over for both of them. Don't give yourself a nightmare, trying to create a fiction that won't fly.
Nope. Not at all. DRob was a far more mobile defender and versatile. It is definitely not set in stone that Olajuwon was the better defender around the league. Anyways, the first time this discussion came up in here I know I made clear that I regarded Olajuwon as the better offensive player of the two. Of course since that went along with the groupthink here it was readily accepted.
Anyways, DRob's gonna change his image next year so that the hard core NBA internet junkies will give him more respect...
Ok lets everyone make predictions, how do you see Manu playing this season for the Spurs and for seasons to come? Also how do you see Nachbar playing this season, and for seasons to come.....who will be the better player in a few years and why.
Robinson a better defender than Olajuwon? No one outside of SA would ever say something as ridiculous. You have to actually slow down your comp in the playoffs to be a great defender. Robinson was vastly overrated as a defender, he got abused by Hakeem and Shaq regularly and got posterized by Barkley to win the series back in 93. I wouldn't be surprised if Robinson's one of the first guys booted when they revise the Greatest 50 players list. Along with Pippen, one of the most overrated players of all time. It may kill Mr. Spur, but Olajuwon is universally regarded as the 2nd best defensive center of all time, behind Bill Russell. Robinson isn't even on the top 10 of that list. Just gets abused by premier players time and time again. Robinson is considered soft for good reason. He always sucks in the playoffs and the only 5/8 of a title he won was by riding a TRUE superstar's coattails. Robinson's greatest contribution to the *purs was probably sitting out the season with his convenient injuries so they could go out and get a real star. It's too late for Robinson to earn any respect. He had his chances and failed every year in the playoffs. Next.
Robinson was just embarassed by Dream ... it wasn't even CLOSE what a silly argument Robinson was very good for a long time, but never did anything great
If this is what you support your Robinson v. Olajuwon argument with, that he "likely would" have broken the record; well, it's great to sit around and pretend about things that didn't happen. I can make all sorts of "if" and "would have" arguments and they are equally valuable. And btw, Olajuwon has thus far blocked 2,162 shots in his career, Robinson has blocked 1,336, a mere 800+ behind. Unless Robinson blocks a record 5 shots a game those two seasons, they aren't close. But either way it doesn't matter because it didn't happen. You make blatantly pro-spur claims with no support other than vague claims about "mobility" that go against not only Rockets fans opinions but those of any knowledgeable basketball fan's. (Again, I invite you to take this argument anywhere outside of Houston and SA and see what it gets you). Then you get predictably harassed and harangued by other knowledgeable fans, and pretend to be the poor spurs martyr going against the sea of pajama wearing Rockets die hards: It goes without saying that you are more than welcome to express your own opinion, it makes it a lot more fun than everybody cheerleading the Rockets all the time. But no need for the petulance when it gets disagreed with. People tend to veiw your evaluations of the spurs, given that your name is "Mr. Spur" with a little bit of skepticism. Crazy, huh?
But can't the same be said for Rockets fans with an obvious bias against the Spurs? He always sucks in the playoffs and the only 5/8 of a title he won was by riding a TRUE superstar's coattails. Unless you called it 5/8 of a title before the season started (which I saw no one outside of Phil Jackson do), please shut up. That's just as much, if not more, of the "sore loser/ biased" stuff that you're accusing Mr. Spur of. I certainly agree that Hakeem's a better defender than Robinson... but you don't need to resort to BS to prove your point. Robinson's career numbers: 21.9 points, 10.8 reb, 2.6 blocks Robinson's playoff numbers: 20.4 points, 11.5 reb, 2.6 blocks While he's never won a title as the sole superstar, few people have. It's ridiculous to compare him to other superstars (besides Hakeem). Yeah, Shaq has more rings than him... but, when did David have a Kobe Bryant on the perimeter to take some of the heat off? Same with Duncan now. David had good role players around him... but it's a stretch to call Avery Johnson, Sean Elliott, or Vinny Del Negro stars, even in their primes. It's not the same as Kemp and Payton, Olajuwon and Drexler, Barkley and KJ, etc. Having a second definitive star that the defense will have to constantly view as a threat is something nine out of ten championship teams need. Hakeem managed to win without one in 94, and Duncan managed to win without one in 99. Just because he's not as good as Hakeem or Duncan doesn't mean he sucks. It just means he's not to their level. There is some middle ground between being "a true superstar" and "sucking in the playoffs".
Everything is indeed relative, which is why I stated that not just Rockets fans believe Olajuwon to be the better defender but any basketball aficionado. You yourself believe it. I don't really know what we are arguing about here. What you regard as "obvious bias" against the spurs may in fact be non-spurs loving objectivity, whatever that may be. How would you know as you are a spurs fan anyway? I try to temper my opinoins about the Rockets whenever I am talking basketball with my friends (mostly knicks or nets fans), but I don't know if I could ever give a truly objective opinion about the rockets. Either way debating who's biased and who's not is as pointless as claiming that Robinson would have done this/that if certain circumstances occurred. As for the 5/8 crap, I didn't say anything about that (this week at least!).
Wrong. Ming coming to the NBA or not was widely reported, before last draft. I could provide link after link of Li Yoamin reporting it. nbadraft.net followed him as well. He was a lotto pick last year, iif he came out. That is wrong, too. Every team gets an MCE, every year, unless they are under the cap. You are thinking of the $1m exception which can't be used two yrs in a row. The fact you continue stating falsehood after falsehood is why I'm skeptical of you saying Ginobili couldn't get out of his contract last year. Further, notice that your GM said a deal had to "worked out across two continents" to sign him *this year*. If the deal had to worked out this year, why not last year if he was the best NBA prospect in Europe. You don't grasp my point, still. The "Best Player in Europe" is not the best NBA prosepct in Europe. D'Antoni is a good scout of Europe. That's a useful link to the discussion. But there are far more quotes from people saying Dejan Bodiroga is regarded as the best player. this is from Euroleague.net about Bodiroga's recent signing. Read it. He is widely regarded as the best. http://www.euroleague.net/noticia.jsp?temporada=E01&jornada=23&id=83 So the fact still remains, the older European players are likely to be the best (d'uh), but very best though, leave to go to NBA earlier. Just like in the NCAAs. Just because someone is regarding as MVP in Europe doesn't making them the next coming of Nowitzki. Ginobili better be better than the 21yrs like Nachbar and 19yrs like Tsika, but that doesn't make him an NBA star since he has the age advantage in Europe. That's all I'm saying...and you are getting way too defensive, and keep saying we are all wrong and we don't know anything about Europe.
I neglected to mention that Mr. Spur gets props for the picture though, that was pretty funny. San Antonio does need some thugs to spice things up.
Saying DRob was even the equal defensive player as Hakeem is one of the most ridiculous things I have heard in a long time. Anyone with a shred of BB knowledge would pretty much say Hakeem in his peak or Bill Russell were the best two defensive players to ever play. Hakeem had 3 years with over 4 blocks per game and 5 seasons with over 2 steals a game, feats totally unheard for a center. DRob, Mutumbo, Mourning even Shaq--all great defense players in their prime-- but none of those guys can come close to be able to do what Hakeem could do in his prime (either based on statistcal feats like those above or subjectively if you just watched how Hakeem decimated defenses). What Hakeem could do defensivly was unheard of on this planet until he did it (well at least since Russell--who I can only go by testaments) and hasn't been seen since. BTW I am not a Rocket who thinks "Hakeem is god" and never did anything wrong. I have never said he is better than MJ even though many here think he would have been if their wasn't Jordan rules. I also have picked at basketball and non-basketball things he has done. But questioning his peerless defensive dominance from like 88-94 is not something I would ever do. The longevity argument doesn't hold much water either. If blocks had always been recorded Kareem or Wilt would for sure be the leader but noone would claim either was the equal defender as Hakeem in his peak (though you might make a case for Wilt). Also, what if Hakeem never fasted during midseason, what if Hakeem learned basketball as a kid, what if DR had 3 years more NBA level pounding early in his career--it is impossible to say how any of these things would have worked out so you judge on what is done, not what could have been done if, if, if. Hearing an opinion like DR was the equal defender of Hakeem in their primes just really makes me question any objectivity whatsoever from MrSpur--though this doesn't mean I can't appreciate his info and posts.
Looks talented, but I wish people wouldn't act like he's a one of kind talent. There are guys who aren't in the NBA now who can do the same things. I wish people would stop hyping every player they see on a highlight reel. I like what I saw, but I'd rather just wait for the guy to play a game in the NBA first. I'm curious how he's gonna react when a "cocky" american dunks on him, because it's gonna happen.
