Nikos, Thinks for understanding that I'm not really criticizing Ginobili, just scouting that video, and criticizing the atrocious European defense in it. I don't like to speculate on players who I haven't seen much. But to answer you question, I (like you) have probably seen more European video this year than my whole life combined. I'm trying to figure out their game. I'm beginning to look at it like the Mavericks, high-powered transitioin with little defense from both sides. I'm not quite sure how well that is going to translate when we start bringing the shooting guards from Europe over. As for scouting Ginobili and Nachbar in particular, I've learned many times that there is a fact, "streaky shooter" is often a euphemism for Shandon/Larry Hughes type shooting where they are streaky even on wide open shots. Streaky shooting doesn't always mean the "he can get REALLY hot" type of shooting like Iverson. Another bball fact that I've learned is streaky shooting allows defenses to back off you and there goes your driving ability. Streaky shooting is a fatal flaw and so is exposing the ball on drives. Ginobili might only be exposing the ball in those video's, so that might not be a real problem, but no one calls him a good shooter. That is a problem he'll needs to work on to survive, or he'll never be better than Larry Hughes, which I guess isn't really that bad, but it is not good for Tim Duncan. He needs shooters as you can see how the Lakers just forced the ball out of his hands every 4th Q in the playoffs, almost on queue. Sometimes the super leapers (which he looks to be) never care that much about practicing shooting. Dunking does not make you a star NBA players. All the successful Europeans in the league are great shooters. As for Nachbar, I rate him better because of his advantage of age, height and shooting ability, and based on the scouting reports from the Rockets. Ginobili could easily be the superior player for awhile, but they aren't really comparable because one is a SG and one a SF. Plus, Nach fits our needs better than a driver fits Duncan's team, which is based on super defense and keeping opponents from doubling Duncan. The Spurs seem to own the Lakers, but then their 4th quarter defense just stole those games from you by taking Duncan. imo, What you need is better shooters on the floor. Clearly lanes for Ginobili might work, I guess, but that ball really needs to be in Duncan's hands. Will a slasher help him more than a shooter/slasher? My bet from the reports (which isn't much) is that Ginobili needs to practice shooting. MrSpur, Don't be so defensive. It shows lack of confidence. If you believe Ginobili is considered the best player in Europe versus Dejan, you are a Spurs fanatic or know little about European bball. We can only be talking about "potential" right, then you have to include everyone drafted ahead of him, right? Mike Monroe is just trying to be controversial.
MrSpur, Why would he sign such a contract after being drafted, yet Parker and other 19yr olds routinely have buyouts in contracts. You seem to be dancing around the subject of why the Spurs didn't bring Ginobili over earlier. I can't find anything on them trying. Was that big news or not? It just seems like we should see something on it if he was the "Best Player in Europe" But I did find this from the Sporting News http://216.239.37.100/search?q=cach...0010628.html+"Ginobili"+buyout&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 So, is Javtokas locked up in Europe with no ability to come to the NBA when asked. Why would a player who was drafted sign a contract that takes the Spurs leverage away? Even the best players have buyouts. Why wouldn't a *drafted* player maintain his ability to join the Spurs when ready? Did Ginobili sign that Italian contract after being drafted? Looks to me like the Spurs encouraged him to get out of Argentina and play in Europe? Do you have any links to share that say Ginobili signed a 3-yr contract that stopped him from playing in the US after being drafted? Why would he sign such a contract with no buyout after being drafted?
this is the same person who said bruce bwen would be a great shooter on the spurs and that the spurs were a better team with steve smith than with derek anderson. take it with a boulder of salt.
honestly, ginobili reminds me of wang zhi zhi clips except w/o the sick atheleticism and dunks and flair similar moves, and strange coordination
Didn't the Spurs end up with the same record as the previous year? And the Spurs actually competed with the Lakers this year, instead of giving up and getting steamrolled. "Bruce Bowen" and "a great shooter" in the same sentence? LOL....funny stuff
HP when you say Manu exposes the ball, in which instances of the highlights are you refering to? The only one I can see is the sequence where he CARRY's the ball and maybe the play next to that as well. But there are other examples like when he is wearing a blue jersey where he just blazes to the hoop so quickly I dont understand how he is exposing the ball? About 4 or 5 plays I seen he just simply beats the defenders to the spot before they can react and dunks on them. Which instances in the video does he expose the ball surely, I would like to know, and also how can you be sure he is exposing it and will continue to do it. I'm not arguing, I just don't understand what you mean as far as this highlight is concerened (except on the part where he carrys the ball and does a crossover).
Huh? I agreed with you on it being ridiculous to say Bruce Bowen is a great shooter. And when did I say Bruce can stop Kobe? Nobody on this planet can do that.
sorry, i should have been clearer. i wasn't accusing you of saying that. there were plenty of people in san antonio (sportswriters, etc.) calling bruce the kobe stopper. and there were people (ahem, Mr.Spur...ahem, The Cat) on this bbs saying the spurs could put bruce on kobe one on one. and they quickly found out that kobe will embarass you if you try to cover him one on one. i've said it before and i'll say it again. the only way to "stop" kobe is to make him play defense. and the spurs - even with ginobili - still don't have a player that can make kobe play defense. derek anderson could - but hey! they didn't need him!
Nikos, his dribble is out if front too much for my taste, but the main thing is nearly every time he jumps he does the mascot jump. You know how those mascots run up to the trampoline with two hands on the ball moving it side to side in front of them as they run. They have the ball exposed on the hip of the planted leg, back and forth. When you jump, the ball has a tendency to be on the hip of the leg on the floor as you rise with the other leg. Everytime in the video that Ginobili jumps he moves the ball to the hip of the planted leg and rises with the other leg. The hip with the ball is also the one exposed to the defender. You can say that he is blowing by that defender and that the defender can't swipe it, but to me, it is a bad habit. Defenders learn that about players and will reach for that spot on your hip. This is like a grade school age trick on defense. It surprises me to see professionals get stripped for failing to jump with the ball away from the defender and/or higher in the air (not on your hip)....that's why it caught my attention. Of course, he never got stripped, so maybe it isn't a tendency, but rather he knew the defender had no chance. Then again, with wide-eyes on the rim, are you really always aware whether the defender is a reach-in away?
So, without every seeing Ginobili play a game, you know that he can't be as good as a Derek Anderson? I would love to have Bruce Bowen on Kobe one on one. I said it before the season, I still say it now, and I am even more convinced now than I was before the season. Bowen did the best job of defending Kobe that I have seen in the past three years. He didn't leave his feet, anticipated well, and stayed in front of Kobe. Did Kobe score his points? Sure. But he's always going to. However, there are some things you can't account for by the points per game. For example, Bowen saved a ton of points merely by being able to stick with Kobe in one on one situations. When you have Bruce Bowen on your team, the rest of the team doesn't have to play help defense, and thus there are less open shots for the rest of the team. Also, Kobe's stats for the series are skewed because of the way he abused Antonio Daniels off the bench at SG. There was a stat on TV during game 5 of that series... on Bowen, Kobe was shooting about 38 or 39%, well below average. Against Daniels or anyone else, he was shooting almost 60%. I recognize that you won't ever give Bowen credit... but you need to know that it's not some universally accepted fact that Bowen's performance was subpar. If anything, he went beyond my greatest expectations of him.
Just thought I'd throw this in here. Cat is a great example of a player who goes to the hoop and protects the ball. I think few do it better.
Once again, Bowen allows the Spurs to play Bryant straight up and not have to double him. Bowen also limited his ability to create. Yes, Bryant is going to get his there is no doubt about that. This "Kobe Stopper" business is this drivel for casual fans to talk about. Derek Anderson gave the Spurs an offensive threat at the two and Bryant lit his ass up back in 2000-01. So much for the theory of 'tiring him out by making him play defense.' What the Spurs need is Bowen and an offensive threat at the other perimeter spot...or perhaps Pop should loosen the reigns on Parker.
Because that player gets some guaranteed money. Yes, Ginobili signed that deal after being drafted as far as I know. http://www.euroleague.net/plantillas/jugador.jsp?id=AKX "Grew up with Andino Roca (Argentina) juniors...made his debut in the 1995-96 season...joined the Estudiantes Bahia Blanca (Argentina) in the 1996-97 season and played there also the 1997-98 season...came to Europe during the 1998 summer, signed by Basket Viola Reggio Calabria (Italy)...played there also the 1999-00 season...for the 2000-01 moved to Virtus Pallacanestro Bologna...selected in the 1999 NBA Draft by the San Antonio Spurs (#57)." Go to mysa.com and look in the archives. His contract was the problem. This was also confirmed by people I know.
There was an article about Ginobili and a couple of other European players who had been drafted by NBA teams and were now in the process of coming over. There were a couple of quotes about Ginobili from some NBA front office types and scouts (non-Spurs) and the consensus was that Ginobili could come over and have an immediate impact...also that he would be a lottery pick. I have not been able to find that article on the Sporting News website. I have found a link to where it used to be located. I also saw this article in the print version. I think it was The Sporting News issue in the first week of May 2002. Anyways, you can go to... http://www.sportingnews.com/voices/sean_deveney/20020509.html And see at the top of the article where it shows "Related links" and the titles are: "Three teams with European help on the way" One of those teams was the Spurs and the "help" was Ginobili.
I'll be the first to admit Bowen played Kobe fairly well on the defensive end. But Bowen's offense, like it has been every other year he has played in the NBA, is atrocious. Someone like Christie or DA or Wells who is a good but not great defensive player but more sound on offense overall fares much better against Kobe like verse said because they can at least score 1/2 ro 2/3 a point for every point they give up. Further, in the most critical moments of the Spurs playoffs (all those 4th quarters) Bowen had wide open looks and consistently bricked them (granted it happend to Chrisite too in game 7 costing the Kings the title, but that was only 1 game). If you are a guard or SF and are not "money" if you are totally left wide open you should not be a starting player period. Bowen would be a fine 6th or 7th man, but he really hurts you as a starter. It is what I have been saying for over a year and bore it's ugly head when the Spurs most needed him to keep the Lakers D honest. Also, yes the Spurs had a similar record the last 2 years, but they went from the #1 seed in the West, the best record in the league, and a legitimate shot a the title (without a freak injury) to effectively the 3rd seed last year. Further the playoffs clearly showed there were 2 truly elite teams playing for the marbles and neither were the Spurs. In sum, they lost major ground last offseason to their competitors. Now if Gino and Jesus grow by leaps and bounds or if they can pull a free agent rabitt out of the hat they could knock on the door again--but those are a lot of ifs. I for one don't expect them to be any better than 3rd or 4th in the league next year with little chance of getting by the Lakers again barring a Shaq/Kobe injury.
I have addressed that time and time again. No dancing around at all. He was under contract with Kinder last summer and he couldn't get out of the deal. Like it or not that was the case. Also, last summer they did not have the mid level exception. If they could have maybe they would have brought him over. Where exactly on the roster was he supposed to fit anyways? Continue to repeat yourself but the question has been asked and answered already.
The Spurs had DA versus Bryant in the regular season of 2000-01 and Bryant torched him. DA's matador defense did nothing and his offensive production wasn't that great either v. Bryant. Bowen did his job. Also managed to shoot 45% from the field and 50% on 16 3point attempts in that series. If you want to bag on someone, bag on Steve Smith and Pop's failure to incorporate him in the offense beyond being a spot up shooter.
Compared to 2000-01 they were definitely a better team. Of course, your assertion that the best way to go up against Bryant is with a good offensive player/good or poor defender is laughable. DA v Bryant in 2000-01 proved that. When you are forced to double Bryant because his defender cannot make him work offensively then you are allowing him to create for other teammates. That is what hurt the Spurs the most in the 2001 playoffs...Bryant was free to score and create.
The Cat & Mr.Spur: simple question: who had the better point differential versus kobe? derek anderson or bruce bwen? there's your answer as to who does a better job on him. jeez guys. i can't believe you're arguing this point. i mean, the best perimeter defender in the league, arguably, is doug christie in my opinion. but who would you rather have holding kobe? doug christie or AI? mario elie or t mac? NO MATTER WHAT YOU DO, IF KOBE WANTS TO DROP 30, HE'S GOING TO DROP 30 ON YOU. you might as well be able to score 15 - 17 points per game in return. oh, and The Cat, without every seeing Ginobili play a game, you know that he CAN be as good as a Derek Anderson??? (a proven, quality nba guard!)
