Sportsradio 610 Matt Jackson confirms Daniels Speculation

I still don't understand your point. There were other shooters available when Piatkowski signed his contract so we did not have to sign him at the time.

For example, Voshon Lenard signed his deal on September 13, 2003.

 

It seems to me we are in a good position. If AD excells he can stay in his contract for one more year where we have full Bird Rights, or void out where we have Early Bird rights--where I think we can offer more (due to 12.5% increases) than any team not significantly under the cap (beat an MLE over the same years).

Given AD's modest contract, worst case he is a marginal player who cost us a late 1st rounder but is not a cap albatros (contrast that to Fisher, Barry, etc, for a full MLE for 3-4 years). Now if he performs as expected, or better, as we hope for next year, we are in a very strong position to resign AD via Early Bird after next season or Full Bird by him staying with us 1 more year for the payoff.

Seems like a very prudent move to me.

I'd sure like to get one of their excess centers (James/Booth/Penko) and send Spoon along if possible though.

 

Well, at least we can dispel the notion that somehow we are giving up TWO number one picks for AD. The first pick is what we call a sunk cost, as it was sent with Rice as part of that deal, not this one. At that point Rice was more of a liability than an asset, so what team would take his contract without compensation? Our benefit was in getting cap space, and it doesn't really matter what we did with it.

 

I quote myself from page 4 of this very thread:

And now that I bother to look up the numbers, both Lenard and Barry signed for more per year than Pike did, and both have worse career shooting percentages than Pike.

So to reiterate again, we were going to sign a shooter, any shooter, before we even thought about signing JJ. And since we couldn't sign both without hitting luxury tax territory, the Glen Rice deal was necessary to get JJ. Comprende?

 

jim jackson came out of that rice deal

btw im all for trading the TE/1st rounder for daniels/2nd rounder

 

Drooool.....

That's a line-up! Nice touch of scoring/rebounding at the PF spot too!

 

YEAR TEAM G GS MPG FG% 3P% FT% OFF DEF RPG APG SPG BPG TO PF PPG

Pike's Career 665 238 20.1 .436 .399 .841 .70 1.70 2.40 1.1 .55 .17 .86 1.60 8.2

Voshon's Career 536 314 27.7 .416 .386 .795 .60 2.30 2.90 2.1 .75 .24 1.33 2.20 12.2

A gift of hindsight is wonderful.

Do you have the foresight for this coming year? Make a bet on FG% perhaps?

 

It goes to show ... no one else was smart enough!

 

RIET, how can you complain about the JJ signing so much.

okay, we signed him for a little more his first year than he probably could've gotten (though of course we don't know what else he was offered). but, what would've been more advantageous. signing JJ to a minimum one year contract (assuming he even chooses us if we do that), have him play as well as he did this year and then go looking for a nice raise in the offseason and us hoping to sign him back but not sure if we can and not sure how much it will cost. or sign him for 3 years, maybe even starting at more than he could currently get, but hoping his production will make it well worth the security of having him wrapped up for 3 years for cheap even if the first year was more than he could get? i'll take option B (especially considering the low risk of a 3 year, 8 million dollar deal, much less for someone who has produced nearly everywhere), and the way it worked out, every single time.

and yeah, in retrospect, the pike signing blew, but did you know he was suddenly not gonna shoot after 9 years of being able to. we needed a shooter, we got one of the better available ones for a reasonable price. some other shooters who hadn't shot as well signed for about the same but shot better this year. what are you gonna do?

 

1. I was against the JJ signing at the beginning because of his contract. Obviously he worked out fantastic for us. However, at the time, I felt we couldve signed him cheaper.

2. I was against the Piatkowski manuever for the same reason. There were plenty of good shooters available. We needed to shore up our SF first and I felt Piatkowski was a woefully inadequate replacement. I strongly disagreed that an outside shooter was the panacea of all our problems as most people predicted.

3. I despised the Glenn Rice manuever because I felt we received nothing of real value...... except the trade exception which people were convinced would be utilized wisely. We have not discarded it yet and may still utilize it as part of a deal.

4. My biggest current complaint is if this rumor is true (at this point it's just conjecture), we will have wasted the trade exception and we trade another first round pick for a career journeyman who we couldve signed last year. We knew Moochie was a terrible marginal NBA player and we needed a backup PG.

Now, we may give up what is the equivalent of 2 1st round picks for a guy we couldve signed in July of 2003.

As a Rockets fan, that is just a bit distrurbing.

 

The analysis is correct, but it is backward-looking.

Consider it a sunk cost and move on .

 

Same here. Daniels is looking good now because he's the equivalent of being the only girl left to ask to the prom. I just have this BAD feeling that Charlie Ward is going to be their starting PG and that thought just turns my stomach.

 

Not to rub it in but the Rice deal was for our 1st rounder and John Ameachi. Plus this helped UTAH in 2 ways. We'd better use this TE wisely.

 

Doh!! My past coming back to haunt me. Nice find.


REIT, oh mighty one, I see you complaining a lot, but what would you do? Please don't say Damon Jones either. That'a a player who's a career sub 40% shooter and was only able to shoot 38% with Sacramento in 2003. Everybody usually becomes a much better player when put into Sacramento's system but somehow Damon was unable to. Nothing about Damon Jones makes me think he could or should be our starter.

 

GATER, I totally agree. I was just bringing up the fact that we already gave up a #1 for the TE and are talking about giving up another #1.

I would love to net Daniels and Battie with our TE. I think that would be worth it. Good value picks for the contracts and players that probably would mesh well with our team.

 

I don’t mind getting Antonio Daniels but we shouldn’t keep giving away 1st round picks. If it takes that to get him, we should pass. He’s a career journeyman and underachiever. He may be a good cheap fill in but not for that price – unless we can unload a contract.

We could do 1 of 2 things: Sign a cheap temp. – like a Damon Jones. The PG role will not be dominant in our lineup anyways. Lue and whoever can split time and they would be adequate. Neither Jones nor Lue would be a long-term solution but neither would Daniels.

We can wait it out and hope next season won’t become a spend fest. I would love to sign a Marko Jaric who can be a very productive player. He’s relatively young and can still improve. He’s had a few injuries but that can depress his value and he may be cheap.

If we decide to go the trade route, we should trade for someone with a little less baggage and a little more upside. Very few, if any, players suddenly improve at 29. I wouldn’t mind trading for Arroyo (I’m not a CBA expert but I believe he would have to approve the trade) who showed great promise last year in Utah. Assuming Utah wants to keep Arroyo, we should look at Raul Lopez, Utah’s backup. He is somewhat spastic, ala Ginobili, but has good energy and is very young. When Arroyo was hurt, Lopez played very well. I doubt Utah will commit to 2 long-term PG contracts.

If we trade for Daniels, we should attempt to unload a contract. That would at least give us a little more flexibility down the road.

My biggest wish during the offseason would be SG, Michael Redd, who’ll be a free agent next year. I’m not sure if we can trade for him this year and offer him more money than any other team. I’m just an old curmudgeon, not a capologist. If we get Redd, we can then move McGrady to the 3. That would allow us to move JJ to the bench where he can be an outstanding 6th man rather than an average starter.

With that lineup, the PG’s role will be even less significant, which could be especially significant given the lack of choices available.

We need to use the draft to add depth. We cannot expect to continuously plug in holes via the FA route. It is an absolutely unworkable system.

 

rather than a new thread, for James lovers 'beware', he's trying to catch on in Shaqland:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/sfl-heat12ajul14,0,2132750.story?coll=sfla-sports-headlines

Familiar faces would like to fill backcourt

By Harvey Fialkov
Staff Writer
Posted July 14 2004

Now that the Heat's glaring hole in the middle is about to be filled by Shaquille O'Neal and Michael Doleac, General Manager Randy Pfund has intensified his search to shore up the backcourt.

Several familiar faces have expressed an interest in filling the void created by the departure of backup point guard Rafer Alston, including former Heat point guards Travis Best, Mike James and Tim Hardaway.

The Heat seems to be most interested in James, a restricted free agent who started for the Celtics before a late-season trade to the Pistons dramatically reduced his minutes during their championship run.

The Heat spent more than two years developing the undrafted James and was taken aback when he bolted to the Celtics last summer. James averaged 7.0 points and 2.8 assists in his two seasons with the Heat.

James' agent, Doug Neustadt, said the decision to leave Miami was based solely on the promise of more minutes in Boston.

James, 29, started 55 games and averaged a career-high 10.7 points and 4.9 assists in 38.1 minutes per game for the Celtics. He shot 41.6 percent from the field and 38.1 percent from 3-point range.

"We have spoken, and I expect to speak to Randy in the very, very near future," Neustadt said Tuesday. "There are no hard feelings. Mike enjoyed his experience in Miami and for the right deal would come back."

Best, 32, who averaged 8.4 points and 3.5 assists in 72 games with the Heat during an injury-plagued 2002-03 season, was signed by the Mavericks for the veteran's minimum ($938,679) last season.

Serving as a backup to point guard Steve Nash, Best had the least productive season of his career, averaging 2.8 points and 1.8 assists in 12.5 minutes per game.

"Dallas doesn't run nothing like the East coast offense, it's just a lot of Steve Nash," said Forrest King, Best's agent.

Best was hindered by ankle and calf injuries in Miami. The Heat went 19-33 in the 52 games that Best started.

"They need somebody who could run the pick-and-roll. They got Dwyane [Wade], but he's not a pick-and-roll guy. He's a creator," King said. "If they return to a plodding type [of offense], they don't want turnovers. They'll want a guy with great handles [dribbler]."

Hardaway, 37, who sat out last season but has yet to announce his retirement, told ESPN Radio Monday night that he would welcome a call from the Heat.

"I see Tim Hardaway as a nice free-agent point guard who can still play if the right team comes along and offers that," said Hardaway, who averaged 17.3 points and 7.8 assists in six seasons in Miami. "That could be the Miami Heat, if they offer me a position to play or to be in the office. It's not me. It's them that has to pull the trigger."

Neither Best nor Hardaway would command more than the veteran's minimum. James could possibly take up the $1.6 million lower-level salary exception, while the Heat would still have approximately $2.5 million remaining from the mid-level exception (after the Doleac deal) to spend on more desirable free agents, such as veteran forwards Toni Kukoc or Robert Horry.

Harvey Fialkov can be reached at hfialkov@sun-sentinel.com.

 

you can really get people steamed if you take it back ANOTHER step and remind people that we ended up with Rice, when we did the sign and trade to get rid of the great

...shandon anderson

 

What you proposed would be an absolute dream. Redd is super shooter and would be unbelievable on this team. I have always loved Redd's game and would love for him to be a Rocket. Plus, I agree with you on making some kind of move to bring in a player to start at the 2 or 3 and bring JJ off the bench. I have always liked that idea which would make our bench that much stronger.

But, realistically, Redd is an all-star and I dont think the Rockets have anything to offer the Bucks that they would give him up.

 

I agree that would be tough. I’m not sure how valuable cap space is to Milwaukee and how much they would be willing to pay Redd after the season – that’s the kicker. If Milwaukee does not need the cap money and potential draft pick, we should consider involving a 3rd party to facilitate the trade if possible.

We need to add young depth.

In a couple of years, we’ll have to replace our starting PF, SF, our PG (depending on who we get), backup C, backup PG, etc… basically the entire team other than Yao and Tmac. Unless Lue gets more $, he will probably leave after the season. Almost every major contributor other than our 2 superstars will be 30 or older. It will be impossible to fill all those needs just through trades or free agency.

If Nachbar and Gaines works out, great. If not, we better have some contingencies.