I still don't understand where all of these big name free agents are coming from that San Antonio is going to sign in the next year or two to make Tim Duncan want to stay. Who exactly are the Spurs looking at with this grand design of theirs? It is not like the rest of the Spurs look like a competent team, ala Sacramento. They are a one trick pony surrounded by old men. Unless AD just blows up, there is no one around come contract time to make Tim want to stay, yet he is good enough with the geriatrics to take the team to the playoffs and eliminate good draft poicks from the equation as well. Face it, when Tim looks around and sees all of the old geezers on the verge of retirement, he will jump the Admirals sinking ship, and the Rockets will be standing with open arms to greet him.
All right guys, I'll back off a bit.... There are a couple of you that have NOT refrained from making stupid comments, stating opinion not backed up by fact, cracks against everything Spur related. You know who you are. I'll try being nicer if folks like Rockhead, Khan, and ZRB will try being smarter. There are a couple of you that HAVE refrained from the aforementioned traits, and even had sense to correct a fellow Rocket poster. You know who you are. I respect that. Mango….. are the rockets the 95 champs because they were the best team, or are they champs because the Spurs laid down ? I think to say the Spurs laid down tarnishes the Rocket title, they earned it, they were-for the most part-IMO-unstoppable that year. Who cares what Jordan was doing. Who cares what the Spurs did/ did not do. Rockets were best. Jay…..Rudy is taking a different approach? Please briefly explain what that strategy/approach is. Are the Rockets an up and coming team? You tell me. I don't follow the Rockets as closely as you guys, but in my opinion...I think the jury is out on that. You have a nice team now, but I don't think you have the pieces, even at this stage in the rebuilding process. Every successfull team needs 2 studs. Jordan & Stockton. Drob & Tim, Olajuwon & Barkley, Ewing & Sprewell, Shaq & Kobe. Sorry, but Cuttino and Francis don't fit that bill. Are they good? Hell yes. Are they THE best at their positions? No. Top 5 at the position? No. Could they be? Possibly. Right now: Second tier. Rice? Nice pick up. But I don't think he is the answer, he is a nice piece. Norris, Taylor....Again, nice players but second tier. I think any team can succeed in the West without a dominant center. But, if you want to get past LA and advance in the playoffs, I think the Rockets need one. Collier? Cato? I do not see them effectively fill the shoes of Olajuwon, or banging versus the West's top centers. The rest of the team....good role players, and developing players. Up and coming? Bright future? Sure. Rockets are 2-3 seasons away from any success, IMO, and I define success as getting past, or at least competing with..... the Mavs, Wolves, Jazz, Spurs in the Midwest, and the Blazers, Lakers and Kings in the Pacific.
Sorry, but Cuttino and Francis don't fit that bill. Are they good? Hell yes. Are they THE best at their positions? No. Top 5 at the position? No. If you don't think Steve Francis is a top 5 point guard, it's fairly obvious you don't know very much about the Rockets.
I may not be closely familiar with the Rockets, but I am very familiar with the NBA, and more importantly-who the top guards are in the league. Francis is not in the elite yet...
mmm hmm. very convincing olajuwon & barkley didn't win any titles together. ewing & sprewell didn't either. but that JORDAN/STOCKTON combination was simply unstoppable!
Shandon, Whoops, that was a typo. However, I stated that "Every successfull team needs 2 studs. Jordan & Pippen. Stockton & Malone Drob & Tim Olajuwon & Barkley Ewing & Sprewell Shaq & Kobe. What does this short list have in common? Consistent winners, division titles, regular playoff appearances, success in the playoffs, some have finals appearances, some have rings. Sounds pretty successful to me I'm not talking about titles here (although that is the ultimate benchmark of success) I am referring to succesful teams. In todays game every successful team needs 2 studs.
KIR2GO, glad you knew i was pulling your leg w/the 1st post... on a serious note, please list your top 5 pgs and sgs in the western conf, if not overall. you'll DEFINITELY find cat and steve in the top 5 in the west. you'll DEFINITELY find steve in the top 5 overall. what remains to be seen is if cat can elevate himself to the top 5 in the nba. what remains to be seen is how soon of an impact eddie griffin will have on the nba. fill in a 2nd tier mo taylor fill in a 2nd tier glen rice every1 else just has to play a role, and play it well. this is a team that NO ONE, including the spurs, will "want" to play in the playoffs! no team wants to play against an offensive juggernaut. that is exactly what the rockets have become. oh yea, we also has an enigma at center (kelvin crappo) that, if he hikes up his skirt, can be a defensive stud in the middle.
Shandon, I will get back to you regarding who the top PG/SG's are in the West & league (time limited right now) I agree the Spurs won't "want" to play the Rockets in the playoffs. Spurs have always had trouble with one creative, defense breaking, speedy PG or SG,.... let alone 2.
Top 5 PG's in NBA ( In no particular order) *Jason Kidd *Terrell Brandon *Sam Cassell (Major reason for Bucks success) *Stephon Marbury (will only be better in Phoenix) *Payton (a leader, top 5 till he proves wrong) Top 5 SG's in the league ( In no particular order) *Iverson *Vince *Kobe *Ray Allen *Finley Just my opinion.
Carrie, you are insane to put Cassel and Brandon ahead of Francis. That makes no sense at all to anyone that actually watches basketball. The Rockets have without a doubt the best young backcourt in the league, and the strongest argument for having the best backcourt period. Before you could make an equal argument for Pheonix, but with Kidd traded and Penny a question, I think most teams would prefer the Rockets pair if they had to win a game today. And agin, in terms of the best young guard pair, that is a no brainer the Rockets have the best. Tell me why that isn't something to build on???? Also 3 championship runs were pretty much 1 man shows. The Rockets in 94, Bulls in 96 (Pippen and Kukoc were nursing injuries and were not that effective) and the Spurs in 99. The 2nd best player on that Rockets team was Otis Thorpe, no doubt a role player with that team. Also Robinson was a role player (a very similar role to Thorpe's role with us except D-Rob was still a very good shot block), albeit a very fine one, by 1999. Pippen was the ultimate role player, but you could not run your team through him as evidenced when he hasn't played next to MJ (he is no true dominant superstar). For all 3 of those teams the offenses went through Hakeem, Jordon and Duncan without exception, thus the rest of the players should be viewed as role players.
That is absolutely something to build on. Cassell? His skills are not as good as Francis, but it is his leadership and on court capabilities that I rank him higher than Francis. I was not a believer in Cassell until this year. Cassell was a major reason Bucks got to ECF. Brandon? Everyone thinks the Wolves are Kevin Garnets team. All the pieces would not fit together without Brandon, IMO. IMO Francis is not top 5 right now, but could easily break thru so there will be no questions about it.
I like Brandon as a player, I really do. He probably should have made the all-star team Steve's rookie year when Stockton was put in for something other than his on-the-court-play and you could have argued Steve made a too few many mistakes to warrent making that team that year. But that was over 2 years ago, now Brandon is not in Stevie's league. I shudder to think how good Minnesotta would be with KG and Steve (championship contenders). You put Brandon on the Rockets and lose Steve, we make a run at the lower lottery. In Cassell you have a little bit of a case, but I don't think too many objective people really believe Cassell is better than Stevie. Put Stevie on a team with Allen, Robinson and Thomas, I think they would be better than the current Milwalkee team. In short, rating PGs goes something like this: Kidd and Payton, or vice versa, pretty sound argument for 1-2 Marbury, Francis, and Cassell--extremely sound argument for rounding out the top 5, with most people having Cassell in the 5th. No way any of Brandon, Miller, Bibby, Davis, or Stockton is better than Stevie or Marbury, that just isn't a reasonable conclusion. Thinks for bring up Milwalkee. Unless Penny returns to his 95 form (yeah, right?) I guess it is between us and the Bucks as having the best backcourt TODAY. (KIRGO I guess you didn't rank the top 5 backcourts right now because you know we would be there). Again, in terms of best young backcourt to build your team around, it is us, NO CONTEST.
Ummmm, no...'cuz I don't recall being asked to list who the top backcourt duos are, otherwise I might have. I'ts a very good duo, desertscar. The Rockets just don't have that 2nd stud yet, IMO. You've got the backcourt that can get the Rockets to the playoffs, but not the impact stud that will get you through.
It's hilarious that Spurs fans are coming in here and talking trash. Even funnier that they say that the Rockets had to win a title after Jordan retired. Ummm, didn't the Spurs win the title the year after Jordan retired? I can also tell you that I can't see a championship team in the last 20 years that would roll over and get pounded the way the Spurs did against the Lakers! It's one thing to get swept, that happens. But at least go down fighting! Funny how the Spurs had to wait for the Rockets key players to get old and injury prone to beat them. That's ok, because we'll do the same thing. Tim Duncan can't do it alone, and the cardiac kids aren't going to be around for long. Oh by the way, Isiah Thomas and Joe Dumars weren't considered the clearcut best at their position, and they did well. Same way with Portland when they had Drexler and Terry Porter when they were making the Finals. In fact, same goes for the Rockets and Spurs championship teams.
Ah, finally. Something with substance to discuss... Like a couple others here, I don't think I'd put Cassell and Brandon above Francis. Strangely enough, combining the two would make a case...but that's about it. Brandon has good game, and solid court vision. But I think his offense has dropped off a bit, and at key times it seems to disappear - just when it is needed most. Cassell, on the other hand, makes sure his offense is always on display. While I agree he did seem to improve his on-court decision making this year, there was still discussion on his passing ability this postseason. I don't think his vision/leadership is quite as high as you rank him. Francis can do both. His offense is better than either Cassell or Brandon, and personally I believe his court vision/leadership - while already steady - continues to improve. You put Francis in place of Cassell or Brandon, and either team is just as good, <b>if not better</b> than they are now. And Francis is still very young. That gives him the advantage, IMO. Now...didn't somebody say something about the top five SGs in the West?
Top 5 SGs in the West: 1. Kobe Bryant 2. Mike Finley 3. Cuttino Mobley 4. Bonzi Wells 5. Anfernee Hardaway (lower spot due to injury) Top 5 SGs in the NBA: 1. Ray Allen 2. Kobe Bryant 3. Tracy MacGrady (could be placed as a SF) 4. Allen Iverson 5. Eddie Jones (the pick I expect to be argued the most) I honestly feel Mobes could be six or seven on this list. His defense is underrated (wasn't he DPY in college) and he is unguardable on offense, even moreso than Francis.
Aw hell...let's just break it down even further! Top in the NBA Top in the Western conference. Top in the Midwest division? Top in the Midwest division excluding cities starting with a D or S? Penny? Personnally I'd knock him way down on the list. I know you sort of astericked him with his injury. Years ago he'd be automatically listed as a top 5, since then I don't think he has earned it yet. I'd rank Derek Anderson above him. Bonzi? I think he is a future top 5, without a doubt. Sux for him he has to come off the bench again this year behind Derek. Given our frustration in losing Derek, I wish Bonzi all the luck in the world.
KIR2GO, you are now being paged to the Bruce Bwen thread... KIR2GO, you are now being paged... KIR2GO, bring Mr.Spur with you... KIR2GO, bring Spurever with you... KIR2GO, bring The Cat with you... KIR2GO, bring any Lil Stevie with you... KIR2GO, bring any Spurs fans with you...
BFD = a couple of fans is not representative of the whole. Anyways, most of the 'poor qualities' some of you seek to pin on Spurs fans are alive and well in Rockets fans and the fans of every NBA team. As for the Spurs title, there was a playoffs and they dared to win. The beer and processed meats products crowd can sit around and show off their 'brilliance' by trying to disparage that all they want, it still doesn't change a thing. The Cat is right. Rockets fans talking about 'asterisks' is silly. Unfortunately some of you are so caught up in your own personal cult of personality to recognize it. There is only one...MrSpur.
