DD suggested Artest in place of Battier. I would rather trade Battier, but if the Clippers would take Artest and filler, I would have to do that too for Camby. On another note, I didn't mean to turn this into a slam Yao thread. I am trying to look at the big picture. Yao isn't the only one lacking athleticism on this team.
I'm thinking we need to lose Yao and get some legitimate pieces because he's just not cutting it anymore.
come on man, per 48 is like one of the most misleading stats in basketball. so according to your logic, Marreese Speights is a better rebounder than chuck, horford, Bosh, and Marion???you gotta be kidding me.
If you want speed and athleticism GO TO FONDE! Plenty of guys there with that, and thats all they have. I'll take BB IQ for the playoffs and you can't sit around and wait for a jump shot.
I didn't set the standard, Gater did...he was using those per 48 minute stats... But to be fair, Yao has stunk at rebounding this year, it is like he is not even trying some games. DD
Brooks has a -11.6 On/Off so far this year, and Landry's got a -7.1. For both, On/Off suggests some improvement on the offensive end, but a steep decline on the defensive end. Brooks and Landry provide a lot of positive things to our offense, but they are still lagging behind when it comes to sound defense. The coaches recognize that, and that's why their minutes are limited.
My grandmother could shoot over Brooks...... Landry is not consistent on either end of the floor and both of these guys are athletic aren't they? So maybe we still need more than speed and athleticism in the NBA....... well imagine that........... how about consistency? CONSISTENCY is what this team needs and it doesn't help when one star is out and the big fella is chasing crap away from the basket.
For those that didn't read previous posts, I'm not saying we need to be the most athletic team in the league. I'm just saying that our key players are all at the bottom end of the spectrum for their respective positions. I made the specific point that the only above-average athleticism we have comes from players that have too many weaknesses. Take the time to read through this thread if you get a chance and have any real interest in the topic. Just as much as some people think I'm trying to overstate the importance of athleticism (which is not my goal), many people seem to be underestimating the importance. I'm not saying we should sacrifice intelligent, skilled players for scrubby, athletic ones. I'm just saying that an infusion of one or two key players with greater athleticism would probably do a lot to improve this team. Yao, Scola, Battier/Artest, McGrady and Alston is the slowest, most unathletic starting 5 in the league. It would be nice just to have near average athleticism. Athleticism is not everything but you can't act like basketball doesn't require it to some degree. As much as athleticism can only take you so far, the same is true about being a smart, hard working player. Ideally, you have some of both and aren't the worst in either area. Right now, we are the worst team in the league, athletically - specifically, in our starting lineup. Athleticism is just one of many aspects of the sport of basketball. Some of you are acting like it is a total non-factor. Just like you suffer if you have poor shooters, you also suffer if you have poor athleticism. I am not trying to overstate this issue and I'm not saying we can't compensate for it but I do think it is a legitimate weakness that should be addressed by the decision makers.
I've called for that trade, but if u think DD will give up his boyfriends, its not gonna happen. I think Camby is the type of guy that makes up for yao's defects. He,yao and landry could all play 32mins a game. Camby is a smart ball player, shot blocker, rebounder. When teams pull yao out the paint, camby is still there and vice versa. he runs the floor good and won't clog the paint. He's a natural 4 but is willing to play the 5 when yao needs a break. I would give up scola, but would try to keep shane. I wouldn't let shane be a deal breaker, I would ask for jordan and r.davis back with camby. People need to realize this is a 2 yr window. No matter who you need to trade to win in this 2 yrs u should do. After these next 2 yrs, its a semi rebuild anyway.
Yes. Basketballvalue.com calculates "Adjusted +/-" (APM) which takes into account all 5v5 matchups involving a given player throughout the season (see it here). Based on that (I'm hesitant to cite it, since it's still pretty early for this to be particularly meaningful), Landry's got a -0.59 APM, and Brooks has a -18.8 APM. Amongst our PFs, Chuck's APM is the highest at +19.2, then Landry, then Scola at -7.2. Basically, neither Scola or Landry rate that highly by that analysis, and most of the credit for Rockets success with them on the court is probably going to Yao or Chuck. But these numbers could swing dramatically as the season continues, so I won't put much weight on it. The raw On/Off numbers I initially pointed out are probably a bit more stable, but lack some other information (like teammates and opponents faced) that APM takes into account.
It's pretty inaccurate to say that he ignored PG - the Rockets brought in James AND Francis last offseason and drafted Brooks, then brought in Bobby Jackson too. That's no fewer than four possible Rafe-placements in the span of a few months.
I take size off the bench over speed and athleticism in the starting lineup. All the players coming off the bench is undersize except for battier and barry. PG- AB at 6" SG- Wafer at 6"5, Head at 6"3 PF- Landry at 6"9 C- Hayes at 6"6
Surely Wafer and Landry are league average height? 6'5 is legit for a 2; and 6'9 legit for a 4 (it's Landry's short arms which are his issue). Hayes/ AB/ Head --> all very small. If we got a big backup C type, then I think our 'size' wouldn't be a massive issue.
Huh, isn't it funny how the unathletic Yao goes for so many rebounds when he actually TRIES to go for them. DD
Effort is part of the equation. It is probably the most important but Yao's lack of athleticism/mobility and upper body strength will always limit him. At a minimum, he has to bring the effort consistently. Although we won tonight, there were several examples of us getting burned because of our relative lack of athleticism, offensively and defensively: Johnson going right around Battier on the perimeter for a layup, Smith outjumping Scola on a 50/50 ball at the end of the 3rd quarter, Smith burning two guys to throw it down, Horford going right around Yao for an easy layup early in the 2nd half (I'm surprised they didn't get the ball to him more), Battier unable to finish a drive and throwing up a bad shot because he wasn't quick enough to beat his man off the dribble. Again, athleticism isn't everything and it isn't the most important thing, but it is a factor. Our starting lineup is the least athletic in the league and that is not a good thing. It would be nice to just have league average athleticism out of our key players. Hustle like we displayed in the 1st quarter and at the end of the game is great but it's nice to have some athleticism to bail you out of plays here and there, both offensively and defensively. The only players that have above average athleticism for their positions are Brooks, Wafer and Landry and they have other weaknesses (poor defense, inexperience, etc...) that prevent them from being starters.
Rebounding is effort,angles, and anticipation. Ao misses a lot of rebs because he's poor in all 3 unless he's scoring which is another subject. Brooksball- I like and understand what ur saying about not making plays because of the lack of atheleticism. Some plays quickness and explosion can make that ground guys can't. That Gay play last night under the goal was just a athelete making an atheletic play. Some of the plays Josh Smith made by getting a block then outrunning everyone for a dunk on the other end was another example. The ideal wish is to have something like the lakers or blazers have which are long atheletic guys who have a good basketball iq.
Added, I'm watching portland v orlando right now. A prime example is a guy like outlaw who is just a good of 3pt shooter as shane, but his atheleticism is off the charts.
Some people discredit athleticism because most of the more athletic teams are bad. The reason they are bad is not that athleticism is a bad thing. The reason they are bad is that they are usually either young and inexperienced or don't play any defense. The ideal situation is to have a balanced team that has a reasonable degree of size and athleticism as well as plenty of skill and intelligent players. I do think that skill, intelligence and work ethic are more important than athleticism but I don't think that athleticism is a total non-factor either.
