Speed and athleticism can be overcome with smarts and blocking out. Scola got 15 rebounds, how many did Yao get again? DD
Because Scola is a warrior. He will die for every lose ball and he wants the ball. It is said, it depends who wants it more, I mean rebounds. Yao doesn't care. He is 7'6. He should worry about rebounds, the ball just has to go to him, he feels like he doesn't need to do anything.
Focusing on the miniscule are we? Smarts and blocking out are worthless in transition O & D and there are no rebounds for made baskets. Battier fits your "smarts and box out" category. He got the same rebounds as Kyle Lowry....1. And that other "smarts and box out" player Chuck Hayes? He managed the rebounds as Mike Conley...3. The problem is not Yao and it fundamentally isn't Scola. Look deeper.
Yes, the problem is a lack of effort, and playing hard......we have gone round and round about his athleticism issue.....sometimes it is important other times not. Some great players were not all that athletic. Magic Bird Stockton To name a few......the problem with this team is a complete lack of effort.....they sometimes coast......no one holds them accountable for a severe lack of caring...err....energy. DD
Very true...and very partially. I still think our biggest issue is health. I mean, when was the last time we put a healthy team on the floor? NOT this year. Good grief, Wafer started last night. There is no way we will ever get consistent or our effort will ever look good if we can't put a healthy starting five + rotation on the court...consistently. Its a mess out there now.
To be a great team you have to be able to get some things easy. It doesn't have to be athleticism but there should be games where Yao gets his 20/10 and there's no celebration thread, just business as usual. It should come easy, but it doesn't. Our problem is and has always been that everything has to be perfect for us to be successful.
"the problem is a lack of effort, and playing hard" HaHa, Is this copied from JVG? His normal post-game comments when he was the rockets. Just kidding, but one thing is sure, overall this team is slow, our players have a trouble with the teams that can fly. Specially you play Head with 20 plus min. with 0 point, and Yao got only 4 rebounds in whole games. I think Yao's wife should set up a rule, anytime Yao gets less five rebounds per game, he can not have any Chinese food for a month.
While I think that speed and athleticism are important and cost us a lot of rebounds and loose balls, there are other equally important factors. Mainly the ability to box out and effort. If you properly box someone out then it won't matter how high they can jump. Scola, very limited on speed and jumping ability, but boxes out and hustles like crazy. Plus he has a nose for where the ball is going to land. The same can be said for Chuck, but his major flaw is his height. Yao on the other hand, gets caught in the wrong position by not boxing out and gives others the opportunity to use their leaping ability. This also results in the ball going over his head and guys like Darko getting offensive rebounds.
Fundamentals/Smarts > Athleticism. When you're not as athletic, u must use the basic fundamentals of help D, boxing out, rebounding, and playing Smart. You can't let a guy on offense perform his go to move and score, let him go left (Jason Terry) and score. U must take away something on the defensive end and be ready to get the rock.
The 86 Celtics would love to take on your overly fast/athletic team. They would destroy them with their grey matter. If arguably the greatest NBA team ever had one of the least athletic teams ever, then I guess speed/ athleticism wasn't a big deal. Oh by the way the C's had a hell of a fast break.
DaDa - You're still missing the point. It's well BEYOND athleticism. If you don't recognize the fact that Magic at 6'9" was an exceptional physical specimen at PG, I can't help you. Though slight of build, Stockton was much stronger than Alston. Stockton looked for contact on a drive/break/PnR. Rafer shuns it. Bird for all of his lack of leaping ability was a tall 6'9" SF with quick hands. Bird could run the floor on a break finish and with contact. The Rockets beyond Artest, Scola, and Von Wafer have have how many players that can run a break and finish strong? Effort? How much extra effort do we get from Scola over Yao when Scola averages a whopping 0.6 more rebounds than Yao per48. That's POINT six in 48 minutes played. Stop using the latest game as a barometer for a season. I like both Yao and Scola but either can be overmatched on any given night. Not that you'll ever grasp the concept of physical specimen...hell, you haven't grasped gray-hounds yet...but imagine Otis Thorp next to Yao.
I loved the Bird Celtics....But they lost to the Showtime Lakers how frequenty? Or, are we saying that Magic, Byron Scott, James Worthy and Micheal Cooper weren't athletic? Plus if the game were played under today's rules, the Bird Celtics would lose alot of their advantages.
.6 More per 48 minutes as a player 9" shorter....that is more of a knock on how horrible Yao is at rebounding than it is on Scola....and it is not apples to apples...what are his per 48 minute averages in rebounding against some of the better athletes at the PF position? Let's see...shall we? Luis Scola is 24th in the entire league at rebounding per 48 minutes Ahead of: Kevin Garnet Paul Milsap Elton Brand Pao Gasol Chuck Hayes Carl Landry Antoine Jamison Chris Bosh Shawn Marion Dirk Nowitski Jason Maxiel Amare Stoudamire Lamarcus Aldridge ETC...ETC...ETC..... It has nothing to do with athleticism, and honestly looking at Scola's stats he should be playing a much bigger role....find some time for him and Landry on the court at the same time..or trade Landry for a better PG...as Hayes is a good enough backup.....and having 3 PFs is a luxury, when we have glaring needs at PG and backup Center. Athleticism is overated.....but I would love to have an Otis Thorpe playing on this team in his prime... DD
The Lakers beat the Celtics 2 out of 3, but keep in mind that... #1 In 1986 many Celtics fans still contend that the Lakers tanked against the Rockets because they knew they were a wounded animal and would get crushed by Beantown. #2 If Len Bias doesn't OD on coke or Reggie Lewis die of a heart attack, there are no Bad Boys in Detroit and the Celtics probably win a couple more titles over LA. #3 Kareem is and always has been a ninny.
I think some people are missing my point. I'm not saying that we need 5 Josh Smiths on the court. I'm saying that we are so EXTREMELY unathletic among our key players that it is a serious weakness. We obviously have an undersized frontcourt on top of Yao playing smaller than he is. If you are going to be small, you need to make up for it with athleticism and that athleticism shouldn't be coming enitrely from a trio of young, inexperienced bench players that all have glaring weaknesses. The ideal scenario is to have good athletes that are also intelligent, skilled basketball players. I would take intelligent, skilled players over just good athletes but that doesn't mean I want to have the most unathletic starting 5 in the league either. If you lack athleticism, especially with the direction the game is going (more athletic big men, slashing perimeter players becoming more important), then you are starting out one step behind the competition. I believe it would only take 1 or 2 upgrades in this area to shore this up as a weakness. You don't need to even have average athleticism at every position but Yao, Scola, Battier/Artest, McGrady and Alston are just too slow and unathletic, collecitvely, to the point that it is a legitimate weakness. That's one of the reasons we have so much trouble scoring. No matter how well you execute offensively, there are countless plays each game where it simply comes down to being able to beat your man 1-on-1, whether you are a perimeter player or a big. I think that as much as people think I am overstating the importance of athleticism (something I am not trying to do), they are also underestimating the degree to which we lack it. Regardless, since we won't likely make any drastic changes this season, we need to at least add some frontcourt length so that instead of being slow and small we can be slow and big.
Don't we already have a 7'6" guy at center that fits the bill? All these problems are solved if Yao actually goes after balls aggressively instead of just watching. DD
Need a guy like a Hakim Warrick, or dare I say....Eddie Griffin. Tall rebounding PF who is athletic with putbacks, lobs and defense. A decent three point shot would be a bonus. Doesn't need a post up game. Yao + effort wont put more rebounds into his hands. He can't move laterally, no matter how hard he tries. Its all about matchups with him. Being surrounded by 3 seven footers (Warrick, Gasol, Darko) will lead to him not getting many rebounds. Its just who he is, get past it.
I think we're pretty athletic. T-Mac Artest Wafer Brooks Landry Head Francis(??) IMO all that's needed is some added length in the front court. If it were up to you guys the only way to make the team would be to complete this dunk <object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/VpH8zzRx3jo&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/VpH8zzRx3jo&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>
We need more than that and the fact is that after 6 seasons or whatever, Yao is what he is (not consistently aggressive). Height obviously isn't the sole factor in good rebounding or Yao would lead the league every season. Yao's size has some advantages but it doesn't make him a good rebounder. The reason we've been a good rebounding team in recent years was our defensive discipline (getting back on defense and crashing the defensive boards) not the fact that we've had good rebounders.
