Happy for VSpan - he is a good player, and probably would have had a good NBA career if he stayed. Either way - glad he is doing well, and is happy. DD
I'd have to agree with OMR, basketballholic and even Rocket Booster on this one (not VSpan being better than Scola though) When VSpan was on the Rockets, he showed flashes of great playmaking, creativity, good defense and is probably at least better than Llull is right now. The issue was, he hadn't quite matured as a player. Inconsistent, not quite yet adjusted to the pace of the NBA against athletic defense (especially hard at the PG position with how speedy some of them are), his 3pt shot was inconsistent, and he was a bit of a home-run player (and turnover prone). But JVG didn't take the time to develop him either through a role on the bench or riding the pine for a while. Instead, JVG didn't want no part of VSpan and probably tried to kill his career as a Rocket purposely. But as VSpan's game had matured, he's proven himself to be quite a good PG, and he could easily slide into a back-up PG/combo guard role on half the teams in the NBA comfortably. But he's unwilling to nowadays thanks to JVG.
More of a strike-out player. His 3 pointer was very consistent - consistently caroming off the backboard on the way to a sweet 15-20% average, which is good if you're tlaking Greece unemployment, not so much shooting.
Lets base how good he would have been on 31 games where he played 9 minutes a game. He was also a lot younger at that point. He knew he could get good money and be a star so he took that opportunity. He is one of the best players in europe. He might be able to do well in the NBA, but he is a star there and makes good money so why try to make it in the nba.
All good. Though comment was nothing to do with Spanoulis's TALENT. I do believe he could have been at least a white Kyle Lowry in the NBA Its everything to do with his ATTITUDE on the Rockets. And it was a bad sulky attitude ( Though I did forget about the "Tmac of Greece" low blow by Van Gundy. And then when they acquired Jake Tsakalidis, how Van Gundy said he could be Spanoulis's Greek support buddy or something to that effect. I do think Van Gundy tried to be "funny" in his head, but he doesnt have an acerbic comedic touch like McHale, came across kinda like a dick ) Yet still, Spanoulis ran away and never came back. Instead of racking up Euroleague trophies, he coulda had those productive years in the NBA if he CARED. Van Gundy got fired, they had a new guard friendly coach in Adelman. Yet still Spanoulis bailed out. So I'm saying I just partly fault Spanoulis in things. And am saying Beverly and Prigioni's ATTITUDE is better in adjusting, not their talent.
Ty Lawson = good in NBA, crap in Euroleague Ricky Rubio = OK in NBA, crap in Euroleague Goran Dragic = good in NBA, crap in Euroleague, even a 3rd stringer at times, and times could not even make the roster after training camps Patrick Beverley = OK in NBA = third string player in Euroleague Zaza Pachulia = rotation player in NBA, third string in Euroleague Flip Murray = 6th man in NBA, third string in Euroleague Gary Neal = 6th man in NBA, third string in Euroleague Chris Copeland = failed to pass Euroleague team tryouts, rotation player in NBA Reggie Williams = rotation player in NBA, third string in Euroleague Pablo Prigioni = 36 year old washed up has been in Euroleague, starter in NBA playoffs Andrei Kirilenko, Nicolas Batum, Danilo Galinari = basically the same stats and production in NBA as they had in Euroleague. This list could go on a lot longer with similar such examples.
As a fan of both Olympiacos and the Rockets, I'm enjoying this discussion immensely. I just wanna chip in and say that there isn't much point in comparing the NBA and Euroleague carreers of players. It's a different game over here. Obviously the talent level is higher on average in the NBA, but given the fact that not everyone can be Lebron and the salary cap exists, teams are forced into compromising in some positions. Those positions are often filled by fringe players such as V-Span. Sometimes they pan out, sometimes they don't, sometimes they end up better than anyone could have expected, but in general there's no way to know that before it's too late. Yes, V-Span had a great carreer (by Greek/Euro standards) after his horrible NBA stint, but nobody can say for sure that he'd have grown into the same player/leader if he kept at it in the US. Honestly, I think his time under Obradovic and Ivkovic played an incredible part in his development and, while I might get some flak for this, the Rockets haven't had a coach even remotely comparable to those two in the years that followed. Also, you have to keep in mind that the talent disparity in the NBA is far greater than in the Euroleague, at least at top level. I mentioned before that not everyone can be Lebron, but in Europe, NOBODY can be. It's not a linear decline in talent level between positions. Players like V-Span or Navarro might be the best guards in Europe, but nobody in their right mind would think they could take on Kobe. Their support personel throughout the years however, some of them would put up a good fight against the guys Kobe's found himself surrounded by on occasion while still managing to win. What I'm saying is, it's much rarer to see a bunch of Euro-Waltons or something winning it all in the Euroleague by the grace of randomly finding themselves alongside V-Span or anyone else. AK47 with Shved and Krstic couldn't do it. Players like V-Span who choose to stay in Europe, are surrounded by some other guys of relatively comparable caliber or upside and a bench that might as well be starters for the most part. If anyone ends up playing more than 30 minutes then you're doing it wrong. So yeah, MVP awards and All-Euroleague teams are cool, but not something to really pay any attention to. V-Span is a good player with talents and experience that translate better in European chess-matches than the freakishly athletic, star-studded NBA. That's about it. He's not a coward who played it safe by running back to Europe. His signing with Olympiacos and him sticking with them after last year's rebuild, then proceeding to win it all pretty much have permanently marked him as a leader with balls of steel. Spoiler Speaking of which (pardon me going off-topic here for a sec), do look up the story of last year's Olympiacos Euroleague campaign if you like basketball and can disregard the lack of superhuman players. It's basically this year's Rockets, except if the Rockets went on with win the championship in the last second. It also features a 21 year old Greek kid matching up against Kirilenko at the 3 in the final and shooting 100% from the field. You can't make this stuff up.
Good for Spanoulis! Like others, I really wanted to see him succeed with the Rockets, but there was simply no way that JVG was going to play 'what if' with him or any other rookie while he was on watch. Did V-Span get a raw deal? Yeah, probably, but still no way to know if he would have ever been better than average. What most amuses me is the posters who are truly pissed off about him finding such a high level of success in Europe.
Look, I loved Scola as much as anybody. Great hard-working professional with plenty of post pizzazz. But to think Scola was a great player.....he wasn't and isn't. He's a middle of the pack power forward in the NBA at best. For all his offensive talent he's one of the worst big man defenders in the whole league. For all the good attributes he has, he is a mediocre player. VSpan on the other hand has developed into one of the world's best point guards. And he's been one of the best for a few years now. If he were in the NBA today, he would be dominating.
A middle of the pack power forward in the NBA is worlds ahead of anything V-SPAN accomplished. V-SPAN is one of the best point guards in a third rate league. Tierre Brown (who was far superior in the NBA to V-SPAN, but still a scrub) was the D-League MVP. To think that putting up decent numbers in the Euroleague means he would dominate the NBA is idiocy or a willful bias.
Source? I'm guessing your butthole. Beverley is a JVG type of player, so to even have an opinion like this is pretty ignorant on your part.
That's why I said he hadn't matured as a player. You could see the tools were there. But the coaching staff didn't want develop it.
V-Span could have been an effective NBA player but his game was much better suited for Europe. He likely made a good decision is going back to be a big fish in a smaller pond. His game translates much better to the Euroleague.
By " develop it" you mean fail miserably. Guy wasn't good enough to be in the NBA. It happens. Hes hardly the first player to be successful at lower levels but not in the Show.
Beverley wasn't "good enough" when he was a rookie either. Some of you absolutely refuse to acknowledge that Spanoulis is a great player. You prefer to trumpet the argument of yesteryear and stick stubbornly by your long disproven commentary.
Hi basketballholic - Long disproven since your February 2013 join date..heh. You and I know the drill, Stavros. Don't get all pissy on me cause the goats ate your Dynex remote. Beverley was/is a vastly superior player than Spanoulis - able to dominate in Europe on his way to being named MVP, and carve out a career as a decent role player. Spanoulis wasn't good enough to do what Beverley accomplished, because he simply lacks the talent, and his lack of work ethic and mental fragility didn't help him either. The fact taht there are non-joke posters other than feta-breathed onion farmers such as yourself who still somehow believe that this scrub, among the thousands of scrubs who wasn't good enough to make it in the big leagues, is one of the great mysteries of the BBS - but it gives us something to talk about, so I'm not complaining.
