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Sources: Many top NBA players hesitant to promote coronavirus vaccines

Discussion in 'NBA Dish' started by JumpMan, Feb 17, 2021.

  1. DonatelloLimestone

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    Vaccines have been vital for so many things in society. At the same time dogmatic or people who are religion of science may be doing more harm than good in their messaging as well. Science is and always will be more fluid, from smoking, nutrition, sugar, saturated fat, so forth there was cosensus and as our technology, data, time expanded we were able to change and update our hypothesis to continue to grow. That is and should be always on going to learn more as we become capable to learn more and get more data.

    This is an absolutely new virus. I wholeheartedly think Fauci is sincere, he has worked his life in government when he could've been private and much much more wealthier. Yet the dogma of don't ask questions just listen is easy fodder for someone to take grains of truth or questions and spin them into the conspiracies we see today and the type of mentality to simply not involve the entire community and educate the community, be fortright about data that is unknown, just seems to turn more people more skeptical than follow in. Just like in europe where they had a small, small amount of bloodclots and issues, this is a brand new thing done at rapid speed and also a technology where the IP was gifted to companies that frankly people have had issues with in all ways, but have made many incredibly life changing treatments as well. This all happend so fast and there were so many unknowns, its ashame that media will replay Fauci saying no masks needed yada yada and then see him update his stance and make people mistrust him. The answer is and always is we're learning a lot. It was odd to see the president call it a hoax, yet privately to woodward, people he respected tout how serious it is, get the vaccine himself while saying F all to any of the people who look for guidance in a world where true information is easily muddied. But that I think is a part of the messaging, there have been no long term studies, but this thing is taking out many loads of people in countries that have nothing to do with us, or our economy 'politics, the entire world is losing trillions of dollars, it isn't a hoax' and at the same time we're learning that obesity and issues like that are paramount. That needs to be apart of the messaging during lock downs otherwise it has a counter effect that makes people lose trust.

    I do think we miss the boast as soon as people ask questions, ask about contradictions, rather than having an a dialogue about it, we shout it down to people who sometimes might be able to cross the line. Sure many will not, but in a case of vaccinations against the battle of the virus, each person counts in cultural diffusion. I get the urgency in this manner as well, yet PR, getting it right in how to approach it is a very serious matter. Places like Germany that didn't have as much skeptism had stepbacks after the blood clot situation.

    This is all absolutely unprecedented, for the entire world the lifestyle adjustment, the economic adjustment, all these things effected so many different elements in a way we haven't seen in a century. The communication part is important, the humility in accepting there is no perfect situation is important and not writing off dialogue is important too.
     
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  2. Derp McFlopsky

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    1.5 year long argument over something simple like "don't get someone else sick". Seems like all any of you want is another year and a half of this ****.

    Got my 2nd today, as soon as I could do it.

    Join me, won't you? In a near future that doesn't include talking about this ****ing bullshit with anyone anymore.
     
  3. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous
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    The problem with the internet, people^
     
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  4. Invisible Fan

    Invisible Fan Insider Newsletter™ 2X Diamond Member

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    Most of the elderly who wanted it have got it.

    They're our stealth lab rats for the immunocompromised.

    Get yours already, you big baby
     
  5. DavidJuan

    DavidJuan Member

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    I think it's easy to put down the players who are unwilling to get a vaccine or promote one. But the players are a reflection of society as a whole. The bigger issue to me is why so many Americans - and minorities in particular - mistrust the government and the pharmaceutical industry so much that they are unwilling to get vaccinated during a pandemic.
     
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  6. Haymitch

    Haymitch Contributing Member

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    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuskegee_Syphilis_Study
     
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  7. DavidJuan

    DavidJuan Member

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    DonatelloLimestone likes this.
  8. tksense

    tksense Member

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    Durvasa,

    I care deeply about the long and short-term effects of the current struggles too, in fact, this is precisely the reason why many are "skeptics" and are hesitant about the vaccine. Again, I'm not here to argue for a side, I'm trying to show that skepticism is also based on logical conclusions, and shouldn't be villified as "stupid".

    First off, have you heard that in some countries death rates have actually dropped post-covid? Deaths in Japan fall for the first time in more than a decade. In western countries, death rates have largely followed a normal trend :

    https://knoema.com/atlas/France/Death-rate
    https://knoema.com/atlas/United-States-of-America/Death-rate

    For these countries, death rates have been dropping from the 80s to a low in 2010s, and have been steadily climbing back up towards 2020s, going back to the level of the 90s. So today's death-rate is not anything extraordinary.

    The Death toll tend to be overblown in the media in order to scare people. Death rate is influenced by so many factors, it's practically immeasurable. For example, the lockdowns obviously entails many harmful effects that cause deaths, loss of livelihood, domestic violence, suicides; even the fear-based zeitgeist, or the ban of hospital visits are all harmful to patients who would clearly do better if they are allowed normal family support or normal non-shutdown/delayed medical capacities. But who is here fighting for these patient's plight?

    For instance, the lockdown have turned the LA streets from its former glory into homeless camps. They live in filth and you can bet they don't actively follow social distance or all those mandates. The lockdown has definitely CAUSED the suffering of many here, yet these homeless are healthy as ever, even wehn living in filth. Some articles try to explain their way into fitting the meta-narrative, saying something like "oh, they have open air so it's harder to transmit a disease". Well then, if that's true, then why does the government mandate to lock people into their indoor confines? Fresh air is healthy for you, but this notion now is being challenged by the narrative.

    Moreover, it is CDC's official guideline that as long as a case is "suspected" to be covid, it can be put in the death certificate without a testing and getting a positive; this contrasts with the fact that the collection of flu data has been ceased al-together. Yes, USA suggests covid be put as cause of death WITHOUT a test; the test also gives different results depending on the threshold cycle settings. It explains why some other countries have lower numbers because they won't label a covid without a test, and their test settings may be less extreme.

    There are just countless such contradictions between the medai narrative vs real-world observations. Without getting too polemic / academic, let's take it from Bill Maher, here he shines a light on such phenomenon called "fear porn":

    New Rule: Give It to Me Straight, Doc | Real Time with Bill Maher (HBO)
     
  9. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    "Please, note that the data for the year 2020 represents the estimate made by the UNDESA in June 2019 and is not the actual data. The UNDESA updates the dataset every two years and the next update is expected to be in the second half of 2021."
     
  10. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous
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    Don't bother with antivax morons. Facts just cause them to double down.

    It just gives them a platform to spew their disinformation ****, which muddles the picture for the low info/borderline people who are still on the fence
     
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  11. durvasa

    durvasa Contributing Member
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    Another anecdote, an uncle of mine passed away a few days ago in India after contracting COVID. He was also unvaccinated (by choice, sadly).
     
  12. DonatelloLimestone

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    I get that some people, no matter what, won't be convinced. but we're talking about a country with such diverse backgrounds, socioeconomic status, education, so forth. There should be more of a conversation and outreach towards educating in these matters, and now more than ever those shouldn't be a fox news type of washed up, america has never done anything wrong, type of blind patriotism to it. I don't consider having Jlo take the mike on a commercial and tell someone to take it as convincing educational outreach. MEdia andinformation have changed, these ways are a bit outdated. Due to the internet, more and more people have access to education and disinformation. To try to write it off as anti vaxxers with a broad brush just plays in to the hands of others who can take some silvers of truth and spin it towards their convenience and not everyone is some crazy conspiracy type of person.

    This is a totally new situation .Like the fauci and guys who have had theories in the beginning be it about travel bans or masks, then they did more studies, learned more about a totally new virus and gave new recommendations, you have to respect that science itself is fluid with more data, the hypothesis changes. We should have a constant dialogue about that and be on top of that so the 'spinners' can't create the narrative, people are more reasonable than you think and the people we see featured on the news are usually the mot sensational idiots. Furthermore, its ok that this totally new virus has a totally new solution, the technology was donated from public tudie but it has yet to be applied to human beings. Don't shout them down as anti vaxxers, discuss all this, give the nuance, give the pros and cons, the percentages, respect hesitancy. Why? Bc as mentioned with the history of the government trials, they haven't all been ethical. Does that mean the government or scientist a maliscious? No it means humans, countries, and govts have complicated histories and hopefully through democracy we have the ability to better reach our ideals, perfection was never a thing.

    Its the same as the current vaccine schedule, I think its so unfortunate to see parents who might say I want to wait for the Hep B vaccine, or is it ok to spread it out be shouted down as vaccine conspiracist, There are doctors taht are open to evolve the schedule too and take a look just bc it was once recommended that maybe we can tinker, maybe we can respect people who are taking vital ones and want to adjust something to make them more comfortable. Yet the problem of science becoming so dogmatic as religion contradicts the very nature of science, a constant search for truth, taking in more data as we are able to measure it both with more time and new technology and things evolve. Doctors used to be on commercials recommending cigarettes, the head of our government health recommendations who led the food table, almost half a centruy later was shown to have been paid by soda and heavy sugar companies to try to dissuade sugar as being the main factor, NYT reported this if you'd like to look it up.

    So yes, maybe some can't be changed. But many would want the respect of the conversation and many have seen both government issues be recanted as well as pharmaceutical companies in america look out for themselves first. Does that mean its some conspiracy for bill gates to watch us through an injection? No. And each person you get to take it and understand matters, each person can diffuse into their small circle as well. To quit the dialogue has led to the polarized tribal nature of our media and thus our society that we see today. Keep on talking, even 'dumb questions' if sincere matter.
     
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  13. SamFisher

    SamFisher Virtuous
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    I found a top NBA player who is not hesitant to promote vaccines, fellows:


     
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  14. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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  15. JumpMan

    JumpMan Contributing Member
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    Uh, what? Neither confirm or deny?
     
  16. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    :D
     
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  17. Doctor Robert

    Doctor Robert Contributing Member

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    I agree with SamFisher, so I'm not touching the "no data" comment... there's nothing I can do for being that far gone. That said, I can't leave the other statement completely unaddressed. Technology for mRNA vaccines did not appear out of thin air.

    https://nymag.com/intelligencer/2020/12/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-design.html

    "You may be surprised to learn that of the trio of long-awaited coronavirus vaccines, the most promising, Moderna’s mRNA-1273, which reported a 94.5 percent efficacy rate on November 16, had been designed by January 13. This was just two days after the genetic sequence had been made public in an act of scientific and humanitarian generosity that resulted in China’s Yong-Zhen Zhang’s being temporarily forced out of his lab. In Massachusetts, the Moderna vaccine design took all of one weekend. It was completed before China had even acknowledged that the disease could be transmitted from human to human, more than a week before the first confirmed coronavirus case in the United States."

    "As Hotez explained to me, the major reason this vaccine timeline has shrunk is that much of the research and preclinical animal testing was done in the aftermath of the 2003 SARS pandemic (that is, for instance, how we knew to target the spike protein). This would be the model. Scientists have a very clear sense of which virus families have pandemic potential, and given the resemblance of those viruses, can develop not only vaccines for all of them but also ones that could easily be tweaked to respond to new variants within those families."
     
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  18. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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