Sources: Jvg not interested in Rockets because of relationship with owner

I seriously think this is just a new generation of fans who never knew the JVG era. It's all commentator based JVG.

The guy who couldn't stand Steve Francis for going to the SuperBowl with Jay Z and Beyonce. Harden is a different party monster

The guy who relied on Tmac and Yao for ALL the offense.

JVG's teams always had their heads handed to the them by progressive offenses.

This is what I remember

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/200703120PHO.html

<PRE>
Basi
Starters MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS +/-
Tracy McGrady 39:13 8 28 .286 1 4 .250 2 5 .400 1 6 7 4 0 0 3 0 19 -20
Rafer Alston 37:09 3 14 .214 1 7 .143 0 0 0 2 2 4 0 0 1 2 7 -15
Shane Battier 36:48 3 4 .750 1 1 1.000 0 0 1 3 4 3 0 0 0 1 7 -14
Chuck Hayes 30:50 5 8 .625 0 0 3 4 .750 5 5 10 0 3 0 0 4 13 -11
Yao Ming 30:01 1 9 .111 0 0 8 9 .889 0 8 8 2 1 1 5 2 10 -5
Reserves MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS +/-
Luther Head 32:31 5 13 .385 2 7 .286 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 12 -18
Juwan Howard 24:39 7 7 1.000 0 0 0 0 1 2 3 0 0 0 0 1 14 -17
John Lucas 5:44 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 +1
Dikembe Mutombo 3:05 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 -6
Team Totals 240 32 83 .386 5 19 .263 13 18 .722 8 28 36 13 4 1 9 12 82
</PRE>

<PRE>
Basi
Starters MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS +/-
Boris Diaw 36:46 7 12 .583 0 0 1 2 .500 1 1 2 2 0 0 2 1 15 +20
Shawn Marion 35:26 6 13 .462 1 2 .500 1 2 .500 7 8 15 2 2 3 0 3 14 +14
Steve Nash 34:02 4 7 .571 1 1 1.000 1 2 .500 0 3 3 8 0 0 3 0 10 +6
Amare Stoudemire 30:04 6 15 .400 0 0 0 0 0 6 6 2 1 0 3 5 12 +9
Raja Bell 29:15 2 8 .250 1 3 .333 2 2 1.000 0 4 4 0 0 0 1 2 7 +2
Reserves MP FG FGA FG% 3P 3PA 3P% FT FTA FT% ORB DRB TRB AST STL BLK TOV PF PTS +/-
Leandro Barbosa 35:19 12 18 .667 5 6 .833 3 3 1.000 1 7 8 3 0 0 1 0 32 +20
Kurt Thomas 16:33 1 4 .250 0 0 0 0 1 6 7 1 0 2 0 2 2 +12
James Jones 16:18 5 7 .714 1 3 .333 0 0 0 5 5 0 0 1 0 0 11 +16
Eric Piatkowski 6:17 0 2 .000 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 +6
Team Totals 240 43 86 .500 9 15 .600 8 11 .727 10 40 50 18 3 6 10 13 103
</PRE>

 

I think JVG could turn the culture of this team around as well as anyone and that's what we seem to need most.

 

The old criticisms of JVG I feel would be somewhat mitigated by his experience of watching the NBA from afar over the past decade. It has changed so much in the time since he was last coaching, and he definitely realizes this. How it's officiated, how much teams prioritize the three--I feel he would be particularly well suited to adapt his coaching philosophy to the modern game, all the while maintaining the old level of defensive intensity. And most of all, he would be able to command a level of respect that other coaching options out there, including Scottie Brooks, simply do not offer.

A prime example for how an old dog can learn new tricks is Coach K. This is a guy who many said was over the hill back in the 2007-2008 era, and then he got tabbed to coach Team USA. A lot of Duke fans at the time lamented the fact that this man already advanced in age would be further spread thin in terms of his recruiting obligations for Duke, and less likely to be successful in either of his roles as he was to simply burn out from the whole thing. On the contrary, he succeeded with the top level talent on Team USA, and he turned that around to bring some of what he learned on the pro-circuit into college.

I know it's not a perfect example, and you would rather be looking for a prominent guy who left for broadcasting like John Gruden and then came back with new tricks in his bag. Nonetheless, I he think is aptly suited to do this. Of course a lot of the free-wheeling would be reined in. But on a team with a guy who just set the NBA record for turnovers in a season, I would think you would want that.

 

I know I have never posted here forever but I never wanted to lose JVG in the first place...he's one of those coaches that can make things happen.

 

There's so many things wrong with this post I don't know where to begin.

Can you name any players who have had their career ruined by a coach? Just curious, because you seem like it is a 100% given Van Gundy would do it to Harden. I don't think you have one shred of evidence. That is your opinion.

I'll take the fact players aren't on hospital beds at the age of 30, that a coach won't ruin a completely healthy players career by playing him close to 40 minutes per game.

You've mentioned the Warriors who have so much depth they pulverise teams meaning their best players don't need to play. You've mentioned the Spurs who have the best system in all of basketball, where their 12th guy on the bench knows exactly how to play like the 3rd or 4th guy.

There's 27 other teams you can go claiming their head coach will ruin the career of player 'x' - but you aren't. So why will Van Gundy ruin Harden's exactly?

You don't want to experience failure again - yet you don't want by far the best coach available? That doesn't make sense.

You say why would we bring him back when he failed in similar circumstances? Well, because those circumstances are nowhere near similar.

Now, we have a GM who is (present season not withstanding) very adept at filling out the roster after the big fish is in place. Go and read the teammates of McGrady and Yao. Van Gundy is going to have BY FAR a better roster this time around.

So if we hire an offensive coach, are you not concerned we won't have a top 10 defense? Why are you stacking so much on one side to paint your narrative in a better light?

JVG has already stated if he returns to coaching he would need a top offensive assistant - I don't know about you but someone who realises their failures is someone I definitely want.

There is a reason he hasn't coached in 10 years. And let me tell you, it's not because of the reason you're so very clearly alluding to (that nobody wants him). JVG is a very, very, very smart man when it comes to basketball. There's a reason why you don't see top coaches putting their hand up for the Sacramento job.

You see what I'm saying? He has been biding his time and waiting for a perfect opportunity.

You claim he has a system that is broken and he never has shown he can fix it. But. He hasn't coached in 10 years. How is he have meant to shown he can fix it? I just don't even.

You don't want JVG because you think we won't have fast break points? What about all the second chance points we're going to stop the other team from scoring because JVG has a system that doesn't revolve around our C being the only person to even think about going for a rebound?

Have you heard the saying "the best offense is a good defense"?

Again, you're hating on a guy for something that happened 10 years ago. I don't get it. He admits his short comings on the offensive end, and is readily willing to get someone to help in that department - and let him focus on what he does best.

Implementing a defensive structure and toughness within an organisation. His history has shown this to be the case.

Let's go with a given (JVG coached teams being dominant defenses) and the high possibility of an improved offense (with a top offensive coordinator) rather than your suggestion of a complete unknown... Where you're crossing your fingers and praying at night for both those things.

 

His last Rockets were a pretty good offensive team, even starting with Hayes+Shane+Rafer. I really doubt he would do it worst than McHale/JB with a similar roster. It is difficult to be look worse offensively.

Well, Harden needs to be changed or him an his team will never be a serious candidate, it's like that. So at this point it is necessary to bring somebody who actually challenges his bad habits. Starting with the head coach and following with some savvy veteran teammates.

Van Gundy sure has his flaws as a coach, like any one, but he is a real coach with real coaching education/preparation and real experience, who gets his team prepared and ready to compete against elite oposition. Only that it would suppose a remarkable advance on the current amateur look alike team.

 

Look, I get it. You want to go the old route, and IMO that will get us stuck in mediocrity. Just to quickly go through your points:

1) Yes sure. Yao was extremely overworked, and it had at least a significant effect on his career being short than it should have been even for an unusually tall C. JVG pushed Yao to his limit by turning him into a bruising C, something he naturally wasn't. This is also a prime example of JVG being incapable of adapting.

JVG will ruin Harden's career because JVG and similarly Thibs are notorious for overplaying their best players. During game 1 he was whining about how the Spurs/Warriors are resting their players with the regular season locked up. I don't want that kind of stubborn BS on this team anymore. That's a stupid, idiotic, meaningless position to take - especially for a guy who has been watching those teams carve everyone up the last few years.

There are no young star players who don't want to play more. That's the coach's job to make sure their short and long term physical health is monitored and I have no confidence in JVG doing that.

2) First off, I don't give a ***** about 27 other coaches. That's the whole problem. There are a handful of teams who win championships, and we're no longer one of those teams. What made us succesful in our two championships and our most recent success is doing new things in a better way.

There are dozens of coaches who will lead you to the second round as long as you follow old school basics of coaching. It's trash, it's garbage. Won't win anymore, barring a miracle.

Why do I think JVG would ruing Harden's career? Because I've seen him and his disciples run players into the ground enough that I understand it's a matter of PRINCIPLE for them. It's logical in a short window: play your best players more, win more games. Well that doesn't work, because there are at least 12-15 minutes where your team can get annihilated without your star player and you can't expect to have another superstar carrying you at that point. These guys need to learn how to teach team basketball on both ends, with or without their star player.

3) Not true about JVG waiting for the opportunity. He has applied to jobs and been turned down. He's going at it harder this season. That's factual. If you want my opinion on top of that, he's sensing that his time is up and this is really his last chance. Good for him, I love the guy. But let's not make it seem like JVG has been waiting TEN YEARS to make the right ninja move into the position of his choice. He just got overlooked for a job by his own protege.

4) I don't want to enter a cycle of eventual failure. The person you call the best coach has also lost more than unknown coaches. Unknown coaches can be better than known coaches. It makes complete sense, have another think about it.

5) As for system, to me it's clear that JVG has not ever demonstrated a defense capable of converting itself into offense. Whether that's tactical or if it's due to a lack of motivational skills, it has never happened. JVG's offense has always been ugly, and on multiple occasions have been the reason for his team's exit from playoffs.

The best offense is not necessarily a good defense. Some people say the best defense is a good offense. This is all mumbo jumbo. The best team is the one that can create the highest point differential. JVG is legendary on one side, and horrendous on the other. For that kind of differential, I'll take an unknown coach who is likely to have far superior interpersonal skills.

If we're hiring top assistants, I'd rather we go for a young coach. If you need two technical experts for JVG, what exactly will JVG be doing? He becomes a defensive coach with poor interpersonal skills with basketball players from a totally different generation. Is that where we want to be? Why, so we can win 50 and say we did as well as the talent on paper shows?

I can't see any possibility of an offensive improvement. In fact, we are top 10 right now offensively, that's better than JVG has ever achieved and it's being done in our worst season.

We need someone who at least MIGHT:

- Understand how to defend today's NBA, and how to score in tomorrow's NBA.
- Make James Harden's career EASIER, less tiring.
- Understand humans, and millenial NBA players in specific.
- Be willing and capable of not just picking but trusting assistants.
- Know how to incorporate stats into the gameplan without having it take over everything we do.

There are lots of coaches out there who might achieve these things. JVG is the best known commodity out there probably, but he is a dead end. As much as he has proven he can win regular season games, he has proven just as much that he is incapable of overcoming his weaknesses. You can't have it both ways. What if he got worse at defense now that offenses are so different?

It's just not rational to me. At the end of the day, I know they'll want a big name, but bringing JVG on board would really piss me off. Have a look around the league, great coaches are not easy to come by. Most teams just pick the best available, but it's the ones who go searching who at least have a chance of hitting the jackpot.

We're all thirsty for getting back to respectability, but respectability is not enough. It's so easy to end up being another Clippers with great players and a proven coach and just end up repeating the same stupid ish year after year. I don't want to be the perennial 3rd or 4th seed. I want someone who'll come in and tell us a new, never before suggested idea that will transform the face of the NBA and force contenders to learn how to defend us.

 

Van Gundy Rockets < Adelman Rockets

 

http://bbs.clutchfans.net/showthread.php?t=183042

 

He is not one of the top 3 player's in the league

 

Yeah but look at the box score you posted. The other three guys in the starting lineup were Alston, Battier, and Hayes. Luther Head and Juwan Howard were the sixth and seventh men.

When Rafer Alston was the third best offensive option JVG had, what can you really expect?

 

Lol at the supporting cast.. One thing i can remember is Van Gundy had all guys playing hard..

Sign Van Gundy (He will turn this team around)

Free Agent targets- of course Durant Joakim Noah or Whiteside, Conley, Harrison Barnes

 

I always find it hilarious when people think JVG overworked Yao and caused him his injuries. Playing meaningless games during his off time for a corrupt government in the ridiculous name of "patriotism" is what ultimately ruined Yao, that and being really freaking tall. Tall heavy players are prone to feet, knees, and other leg injuries. Tall, heavy players that play all the time will naturally get hurt faster and more often. As for minutes? Please... Yao did NOT play a lot of minutes compared to most starters. He only hit heavy minutes ONE season and it wasn't even that bad at 37 minutes. Players like Harden, Westbrook, Lebron, and most other superstars regularly play much more so please GTFO with that BS.

 

Yao got injured because his anatomical disadvantages. High arched feet...

 

If I had a DD-like commitment to posting I could respond to every post questioning JVG's previous offensive output, with his recent quotes about needing to hire a great offensive mind for his staff should he coach again. He's acknowledged the need to change his philosophy there.

But I'm just a man, not a machine. I'd have to post that response 80 times an hour.

JVG's discipline and commitment to defensive and rebounds + the right offensive guy + Morey = cant miss scenario.

 

Harden plays almost the entire game already with no offensive direction. How could it possibly get any worse??

JVG ran the offense through Yao because if you have a Yao, that is what you do to be able to get open perimeter shots. Yao still did his fade away turn around jumpers. Everyone in the world was saying Yao needed to play tougher around the basket. It made the game easier for all. We need a more strict coach that will get this team in order. No coach would have done anything differently with him.

JVG would not put his players in any situation that would put them in harms way or anything. I went from JVG hater to lover just from the passion I saw him coach with and how much he really cared about his players. He had their backs and it was refreshing. It is hard to find a good coach like him.

 

What I remember was JVGs defensive ratings were great because he killed so much of the shot clock opponents had less shots. Conversely his offensive ratings were poor because they didn't get off as many shots either.

 

I remember JVG's offense being subpar here, I also remember his roster being subpar as well.

 

Finally a smart person on Clutchfans. Hiring JVG would be taking 10 steps back. Offensive tyrant - dump the ball to your star and get out of the way. We need a dynamic fluid offense with picks, sets, post-ups and adapability.
I attribute his defensive acumen to Thibs. Please no JVG, he was the reason I could no longer watch that iteration of the Rockets. Also is there a reason he hasn't had a coaching position in the last 10 years? Think people, think!

 

It's almost like old mate doesn't take into account Yao was bloody 7'6.

I guess it's just coincidence a guy that big had recurring injuries to his foot.

BUT NO IT WAS JEFF VAN GUNDY!!!!!

Just lol.

People are STILL going on about his offense. Are you deliberately choosing to ignore the fact he wants his assistant to be offensive minded?

Ignore some truths to better suit your narrative. I get it.