The Vikings were outcoached and outplayed last night...it wasn't due to having a lack of talent. It was just an atrocious performance from the OLine. Not much Teddy could have done with that. And as far as Carr is concerned, he threw 21 TDs to 12 INTs in his rookie year. Does he need to improve, of course, but that's DAMN good for a rookie playing on a **** team. The Texans are a little unique because they have all the pieces except QB. We have all the proper support for a talented, young dude, to succeed. So yes, Carr would be a better option today than Hoyer is. Hoyer + XSF or Carr? You still wouldn't take a chance on Carr?
This. I had family members that worked for the Texans during the Carr era. Physical ability was never an issue. Carr had virtually everything you wanted or needed physically to be an elite quarterback. However early on it was obvious that he wasn't really cut out to be an NFL QB. Carr was always on time for practice, but he did not arrive early and he never stayed late. He practiced and went home. His wife used to sit and wait for him. David was more interested in hanging out with his family and being involved with his church. He wasn't much of a leader and wasn't very passionate. The sack issued were partly the fault of Carr. He drove the coaches crazy because he just didn't see the game as anything but a job.
I'm a little more pessimistic about having all the pieces for a young QB to automatically succeed... mainly up front since XSF is in-fact failing thus far, and his replacement was brutally assaulted in game 1. If your options were failed-XSF vs. Carr, I'd take Carr/Bridgewater... maybe even post-rehab Manziel in a second. However, if you presented me with possible stud O-lineman vs. unknown starting QB... its not so clear. I'm envious of the Cowboys situation... where the O-line has been built up with 3 studs under 25 (all high round draft picks). Even when Romo was younger/more spry, they weren't doing anything of note due to a lack of talent up front. Same applies to the Seahawks, Packers, and Niners (when Kapernick was taking them to the SB)... line consistency/talent goes a lot further than most people give credit for (and then, of course, you have mastermind Belichick that can find usable talent between the couch cushions, and make it work). And its not about any young player vs. Hoyer... Hoyer isn't going to be here long-term, regardless. He was always a stop-gap. If you're going to select a young QB as your guy for the future... you better have a good idea ahead of time of whether or not he's even capable of being that guy. If BOB had more confidence that Bridgewater/Carr was that guy... and that XSF was going to be a bust... then things may turn out differently, but as it is I don't feel the Texans are set-back as a franchise (and have to go through a regime change or start all over, as is the case when many QB's fail) for not drafting either of those particular guys nor for XSF being a possible bust.
Right, but BOB is the one that decided on XSF over Carr...so, thus far, it's not looking like a smart choice. And using a 2nd round pick on a QB doesn't handcuff the franchise for years. It would have the same impact as XSF failing. I have no problems with a stop gap QB...but then why get rid of Fitz to bring Hoyer in? It makes no sense at all. We should have taken Carr and had him back up Fitz for one year...and then re-evaluated the situation for this season. And if we wanted do build up the OLine, we had the opportunity to take La-el Collins with our 7th round pick or as a free agent. BOB has made his mistakes...so just because he hasn't drafted a QB early doesn't mean that was the right move. So far, we'd be better off with Fitz, Carr, and Mallett as our 3 QBs over having Hoyer, Mallett, Savage, and XSF. That's where we stand right now.
I do find the excuses for Minnesota's terrible QB performance amusing, they remind me of the excuses for a certain Tennessee QB's terrible performances.
-0.3 score. Not good by any means, but not terrible. Here is PFF summary of him before the start of the season (where they ranked him as the 14th best QB in the NFL). He might not be a world beater...but he's also barely played a full season of football. He's not nearly as bad as you like to make him out to be.
He played worse than Hoyer against a weaker defense than Hoyer played. Again, keep making excuses for him, they are hilarious. He's a Captain Checkdown that can't read defenses.
Hoyer had a score of -1.4. No, he most definitely did not play worse than Hoyer. And funny how you knocked his intermediate passing...yet, the numbers told the exact opposite story. You're clearly blinded by your bias.
Hoyer got into the end zone against a much better defense, Bridgewater never did. You talk about bias, but Texans fans would never make the excuses for a Texans QB's awful performance that they are making for Bridgewater. It's laughable. The game could have gone 4 more quarters and Bridgewater likely never gets his team into the end zone.....yet somehow his play was better than Hoyer. Sure. The bias is ridiculous.
Bridgewater was not good yesterday but Hoyer turned the ball over twice giving the other team a redzone short field. I don't even know why i'm getting involved in this but Hoyer automatically has the worst day because of that stat alone. not only that but the first one was the first offensive play the team had all season....nothing more deflating than that.
Im not defending Bridgewater...he didn't play well, but his OLine was obviously failing him hard. Again, you pointed out how he was passing poorly on intermediate throws...and you were proven wrong. And I don't think PFF cares one way or the other regarding Bridgewater or Hoyer....read their analysis on their play. They gave a significantly worse grade to Hoyer than to Bridgewater. And most people agree with that assessment.
So, after all the back and forth about how Bob McNair needs to be a more aggressive owner, and how he needs to hire a GM and strip the coach of decision making, and how they've never done anything in 13 years to address the QB, and how they'll never do anything of note in the future with the current ownership group.... We're talking about Derek freaking Carr and Ryan Fitzpatrick. Also, going back to your earlier point, yes you would have to give any young drafted QB (even 2nd round) at least 2-3 years to show what he can. You know my standpoint on how I don't expect many young QB's to be ready to play right away (let alone play well), and I'd rather they get groomed/developed. For instance, Brock Osweilier has at least the same if not increased chance for success compared to any of last year's early round QB's... I'm not opposed to that sort of investment provided you find the right guy and you're willing to be patient. If you're not, or you don't feel the QB will survive in the NFL despite hype and gaudy college stats (either because of size, peripherals, work ethic, character... whatever), you're better off using the high round pick elsewhere.
I haven't been keeping up with this thread, but are people really arguing for Derek Carr? His ability aside, his last name alone made him a nonstarter. Fans would've lost their **** had we drafted him. I don't care what he does on the field, there was always 0% chance of him coming here so he's not worth discussing and I don't think you can fairly criticize the front office for not taking him.
We could have been talking Peyton Manning too...but we missed the boat on that one too. So what's your gameplan for a QB? Hope that an elite QB becomes a free agent and comes here? Picking #1 on a year where there is a "cant miss" prospect? How exactly do you think you'll get the QB situation figured out if you don't draft one early in the draft or trade for an established, legit QB? You don't think that having Fitz as the QB while Carr was groomed for a couple years would have been the wiser decision than what we are facing right now? Every year that you wait on drafting a QB is an extra year that you have to wait for some sort of result. So, again, tell me what your game plan would be moving forward? There will never be a sure fire QB prospect available around pick #20 in the first round...so what do you do to fix the situation? Ive already stated that having Fitz with Carr/Jimmy G as the back up is the far superior choice than what we are dealing with right now. How does your fix compare?
Even though I was not an advocate of them drafting him... what you said is about the dumbest thing any professional organization could do if they in-fact did not even consider him simply due to his last name. Derek and David weren't genetic twins... they are entirely different people. Much like Eli is an inferior QB to Peyton... or Patrick was an inferior tennis player to John... or how Preston is an inferior baseball player to Kyle.... its actually more rare to have both brothers be equally good or equally bad. One is usually better than the other... and despite Derek Carr's flaws, he probably will have a better NFL career than side-arm flinging/glove-wearing David.
Were you ready to move on from Schaub and take the risk of Peyton's neck falling off at the time without using the retrospectoscope? If so, you should put that prognostication in your signature. It would have been great to have him... but I understand why most teams didn't take the risk (let alone pony up the $$$ to sign him... where was that salary going to come from for a capped out team?) If there's a QB available you like early... take him. If there's one you really like, and you're not sure they'll fall to you, trade up. If you're indifferent or don't think any of these guys are capable of being a 10 year starter, you wait. I'm indifferent to Fitz, Hoyer, Mallet. I trust the coach to go with the guys he prefers. If none of them are projected to be the long-term starter, I'm not going to really get emotionally attached and advocate one vs. the other. As far as not drafting Carr, we've already gone over that... they valued a possible talented O-lineman more. I guess Carr/Jimmy G (even if you believe they have tremendous potential) doesn't excite me any more than the possibility of Mallet not being dumber than a bag of hammers and actually "winning" the job does. Last year excluded, there are usually enough QB prospects out there in the 2nd and 3rd rounds much like Carr/Jimmy G. Its the first round/high pick QB's that are usually out of range, and like I said if you can improve the team enough elsewhere to the point that you're not going to need current/future picks... go ahead and trade up. I just don't feel those guys were worth the cost to do so.
