Source close to Westbrook believe he was made out to be a scapegoat for Houston's playoff meltdown

It would actually prove that Westbrook could have played better if he was more comfortable in the system.

Durant left Westbrook because he didn't like playing with Westbrook? You know that's not the reason. The reason is he wanted to have it easy on a team that was ready-made to win rings.

You have any proof, quotes, whatever, that Durant didn't like Westbrook?

Again, before the season started, no one had them there. Thus, they overachieved.

You see what I mean? Harden looked pathetic that game and we're finding excuses for him. that was a sad series man, Harden was embarrassed, and in this paragraph nothing but excuses for him. That Manu block is seared into my mind. Seared. It's never leaving.

That's good for the advanced metrics, but Harden had his chances.

I want Harden to get a good chunk of the blame. That's all. Every other superstar player deals with it, comes with the territory.

 

Really? That's odd to me.

Wall might not even play the whole year, sometimes they come back only to tear their knee up again...then what? Is it really, seriously, better to have his contract on the team than Westbrook's?

Dude, you realize people say the same thing abotu Harden? Like yall should post more on general NBA forums, a lot of teams in the Harden sweepstakes are cautious about getting him because "You'll never win a championship with him."

That's the funny thing about this to me. These same arguments yall have against Westbrook is the same narrative that people bash Harden with. At the very least, admit that Harden also won't ever be winning a championship as the main guy. At least be consistent with it.

 

I thought you might have been focusing on both, my more realistic player would be Brogdan, but of course I doubt he's available. We need to grab Korver tbh.

 

But the actual reality is they did trade for WB so they had to try and make it work......

 

Good point, it can be pretty insular on here.

 

What? He got to do whatever he wanted. He got to run the bench units by himself. He was not good here and he hasnt been good the last two years either. What do you want me to say? Harden moving off Ball is not gonna make Russ stop sucking, not does it make our team better. All it does is give the worse player the ball. Im not sure how to explain this.

Okay man let me phrase this another way, Westbrook was not good enough. He was not good enough of a player to make Durant stay. Westbrook was not good enough as a second option next to Durant. He was simply, not good enough.

And then he proceeded to underachieve on better teams the rest of his career. He also declined.

Im not making excuses. He was bad that game. But you are letting narratives take over your evaluation of him as a player. Im not saying he's perfect, he's far from it. But I do think he's good enough to win as he is now. You and I differ on what this team actually needs.

Does he not? He's had bad playoffs. He should have been better in the Warriors series in 2017, he should be better with turnovers. He should be held more accountable for his mistakes. He was dumb for trying to get Westbrook. But at the end of the day.....Those are secondary concerns to the enormous positives he brings us. And I dont think that this is what is keeping us from a chip. But if you want him to be off ball, this new coach seems like he will put him there so we'll see how much that actually helps.

 

It is better to have a small small chance on a smarter player who has proven to play more within his limitations and the pick then it is Westbrook.

What “people” say on a message board can mean a wide variety of things. We have BimaThug level posters in short supply and we have the exact opposite in abundance. Same everywhere else.

If Westbrook was statistically matching Harden then it would be correct to compare the 2 in their playoff failures but you and I both know it’s a joke to compare the two in the playoffs unless you want to be so dense as to say “neither has won a title” and have that be your proof they are equal.

I will never admit that he couldn’t be a number 1 on a championship team because he was the number one on a championship caliber team. You are caught up in the hasn’t/didn’t so can’t mentality without any context.

 

I don't think it is true that he's been bad the two previous years before Houston. You can't have that usage and bring a team to the playoffs in a historically tough conference and be bad. I mean he was all-NBA those two years and he's getting called a bad player.

And Durant wasn't good enough either. Despite even going up 3-1. That's why he ran off to GSW to be a 2nd and sometimes 3rd option.

True, and so did PG13, but all people do is give that man praise around here.

At this point. I don't think Harden has the overall mentality needed to win rings as a first option and team leader.

Does that make him a bad or terrible or this or that? No, it just means he's no Duncan, he's no Jordan, he's no Kobe, he's no Lebron, he's no Bird, he's no Hakeem...etc etc. The fact that he got punked by Dort for most of the series is simply something none of those dudes would abide by or accept. The fact he rolled over during that Spurs series is something they wouldn't accept.

He's still a top 5 SG of all time, still first ballot HOF, still the 2nd (or 3rd depending on who you ask) best Rocket player. So yes, I'll always ask more of him because I want to win a ring and I'll hold him to a higher standard than any role player or whoever is being his Robin for the season.

 

What does i.d.i.o.t mean

 

I once had a girlfriend who was sexy but crazy. After we broke up, I sulked about losing her. "You can't make someone beautiful," I told a friend.

My friend, who was very wise, pointed out: "Yeah, but you can't make someone sensible, either."

I think about that sometimes when I watch Russell Westbrook making decisions with a basketball.

 

The man put up 18/7/5 on 47 TS% as the "second option". And was causing Harden to get doubled when it mattered most b/c he can't shoot a wide-open jumper.

He deserves the blame.

For reference, Harden put up 30/8/6 on 64 TS% in the playoffs. Let that sink in.

 

Maybe in a sense that the team might play better, sure, but in a sense of assets? We sold super low on Russ.

Here are the scenarios.

1. Wall returns, plays well, maybe we get a Pistons like renaissance for these, everyone, Cousins, Wood, Wall, etc, does just enough around Harden to be a contender. It could happen. That Billups led Piston's team was made of rejects and gambles that just all worked out.
2. Wall returns, sucks, team sucks in a harder conference, Harden wants out.
3. Wall returns but not for long, is hurt. Harden wants out

In 2 of these 3 scenarios. Harden likely is done with this team. Of course there is a scenario where we don't get much better or worse and finish exactly the same ... The pick is meh. I do think the pick is better than most realize because Wizards, as you say, probably finish 7-8, with any luck we get a 15-17 pick which is a decent pick but we'll see.

Personally, I would have held on to him, try to build his value up or wait for a team to get desperate. In two of these scenarios, Wall's contract goes from having 0 value to like -5 value.

I'm caught up on reality. Reality is Harden didn't do enough to get his team past humps when they needed him to.

I also never, ever, EVER said they were equal. Just that people trying to put all the blame on Westbrook for every playoff loss he has is silly. I'm holdnig them to the same standard and I think neither of them have proven they can be the main franchise guy to win a championship with.

Yes, Harden was closer, and his legacy will say that...but as of now and likely forever he won't ever go over the likes of people I've mentioned. People won't even put him over Wade...and look who has better stats between those two...

 

It Deserves It's Own Thread

I think OG Trignom gets credit for it.

 

He is bad relative to what he's getting paid. He's declined heavily in comparison to his MVP season. He's not been good to what his standards have been and he's even worse now. He had Paul George on his team. He also had other good pieces, he doesnt get to use the "my teammates werent good enough" excuse. Especially when he got knocked out by a rookie and then trashed by Lillard, he has simply not been good enough, it is that simple.

If Durant was playing with Chris Paul or Damian Lillard, he might have multiple chips. If James Harden had either of these two, he would prolly have multiple chips. Durant needed someone who was better than Westbrook, especially relative to his competition. Unfortunately, he wanted to take the super easy way out.

Sure, but Westbrook had the expectations with him as the first and second best player and failed to meet both of them. PG13...praise? Idk about praise but I can tell you who the better player is now and who's a better fit with Harden.

Man, Harden hasnt had the teams that a lot of these guys you are comparing him to have had(excluding dream).

This is the narrative thing coming up man. Its clouding your evaluation of him as a player. He's absolutely good enough. The man just needs an actual good number 2. Harden was really good in the OKC series, we were winning any time he was on the floor. And he's been meeting those expectations as a number one to be fair. Production wise for sure.

 

Westbrook was whatever the opposite of the GOAT is in the playoffs.

 

I like WB's fearless energy, but he did come across as a idiot and over the top foolish at times. Challenging Rondo's brother to fight, in a elimination game, that we're getting blown out in, is full blown dumb. He basically signed his way outta Houston with that. That incident was an embarrassment

 

I have another name for you in that respect: Dirk Nowitski. Dude was also completely selfless and stuck with Dallas through some pretty lean years until he finally got his ring in 2011. Dirk was a team first guy who worked hard on expanding his game and did everything he could to fit in with the team along with Rick Carlisle's system. That's why the street leading to the AAC is now named Dirk Nowitski Way.

Once I saw Alexander hire D'Antoni I knew that it would only be a matter of time until Harden wanted to go the "Super Friends" route in order to get a ring. I had no confidence that D'Antoni's system could produce a title and knew that eventually Harden - like AD in NO - would want out. Harden has always been a "me first" type of player especially given his ball dominant style of play. It's why he forced his way out of OKC because he wanted to be "the man". All MDA and Morey did by allowing him so much influence was to create a monster that now threatens to bite the Rockets in the ass.

 

Brogdon would definitely be a great fit, and Korver would be a nice bench addition. That said, you are right, I do think the Rockets would have benefitted if they could have traded Westbrook for one of Middleton, Beal or George instead of John Wall. A Brogdon and Myles Turner for Westbrook and House deal would also have made sense for both teams if Indiana was interested.

 

Source has been revealed


https://www.nba.com/stats/players/a...2019-20&SeasonType=Playoffs&TeamID=1610612745

Look who is at the very bottom.

He didn't just have a bad series he was a literal anchor, as well as a proverbial one. That's bad!

Worst player in playoffs believes he is being faulted for being worst. Honestly that's a ****ing good thing given the pathetic recent state of the team.

 

I didn't come up with it, but whoever did used it on me the first time. It also sometimes has, shall we say, a double meaning.