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Sotomayor: An Unwise Latina

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by basso, Jun 29, 2009.

  1. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    Careful bats

    jorgie might run and whine to the mods again
     
  2. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    I hope he does.
     
  3. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Umm... who cries to the mods and begs that people get banned?

    no cred...


     
  4. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    Yeah, you conveniently left out the dickish stuff you said to deserve those posts.
     
  5. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    And that was about the fourth or fifth time in BBS history that I've reported a post. Judging from Jeff's posts here, you've easily got me beat in the whiny tattletale category.
     
  6. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    BTW Jorgie, you found a job yet?
     
  7. wakkoman

    wakkoman Member

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    And you conveniently forgot about your commitment to avoid the trolls.
     
  8. Batman Jones

    Batman Jones Member

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    That went out the window when George posted all that personal BS in the health care thread. If he's allowed to do that without getting kicked off the board then I don't really want to participate here. I'm fine with it coming down to him or me after that BS (in addition to the years of "drunk" digs, particularly when I wasn't even drinking). He's been posting personal, trollish **** for years now. It's about time for either him to be banned or for me to return to lurking. I'm okay with it either way.
     
  9. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    Here is some reading. After a bit, I remembered The New Republicpieces, but I stumbled on the Stanford story while looking for the Yale part of my assertion. I may be wrong on that one, because I have yet to find it.

    The New Republic -- The Case Against Sotomayor: http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=45d56e6f-f497-4b19-9c63-04e10199a085

    More Sotomayor: http://www.tnr.com/politics/story.html?id=6168aeb7-9869-43eb-b401-2204a0d84478

    the Stanford Daily: http://www.stanforddaily.com/cgi-bin/?p=1031606

    From the first story at the bottom:

    But despite the praise from some of her former clerks, and warm words from some of her Second Circuit colleagues, there are also many reservations about Sotomayor. Over the past few weeks, I've been talking to a range of people who have worked with her, nearly all of them former law clerks for other judges on the Second Circuit or former federal prosecutors in New York. Most are Democrats and all of them want President Obama to appoint a judicial star of the highest intellectual caliber who has the potential to change the direction of the court. Nearly all of them acknowledged that Sotomayor is a presumptive front-runner, but nearly none of them raved about her. They expressed questions about her temperament, her judicial craftsmanship, and most of all, her ability to provide an intellectual counterweight to the conservative justices, as well as a clear liberal alternative.

    The most consistent concern was that Sotomayor, although an able lawyer, was "not that smart and kind of a bully on the bench," as one former Second Circuit clerk for another judge put it. "She has an inflated opinion of herself, and is domineering during oral arguments, but her questions aren't penetrating and don't get to the heart of the issue." (During one argument, an elderly judicial colleague is said to have leaned over and said, "Will you please stop talking and let them talk?") Second Circuit judge Jose Cabranes, who would later become her colleague, put this point more charitably in a 1995 interview with The New York Times: "She is not intimidated or overwhelmed by the eminence or power or prestige of any party, or indeed of the media."

    Her opinions, although competent, are viewed by former prosecutors as not especially clean or tight, and sometimes miss the forest for the trees. It's customary, for example, for Second Circuit judges to circulate their draft opinions to invite a robust exchange of views. Sotomayor, several former clerks complained, rankled her colleagues by sending long memos that didn't distinguish between substantive and trivial points, with petty editing suggestions--fixing typos and the like--rather than focusing on the core analytical issues.

    Some former clerks and prosecutors expressed concerns about her command of technical legal details: In 2001, for example, a conservative colleague, Ralph Winter, included an unusual footnote in a case suggesting that an earlier opinion by Sotomayor might have inadvertently misstated the law in a way that misled litigants. The most controversial case in which Sotomayor participated is Ricci v. DeStefano, the explosive case involving affirmative action in the New Haven fire department, which is now being reviewed by the Supreme Court. A panel including Sotomayor ruled against the firefighters in a perfunctory unpublished opinion. This provoked Judge Cabranes, a fellow Clinton appointee, to object to the panel's opinion that contained "no reference whatsoever to the constitutional issues at the core of this case." (The extent of Sotomayor's involvement in the opinion itself is not publicly known.)

    Not all the former clerks for other judges I talked to were skeptical about Sotomayor. "I know the word on the street is that she's not the brainiest of people, but I didn't have that experience," said one former clerk for another judge. "She's an incredibly impressive person, she's not shy or apologetic about who she is, and that's great." This supporter praised Sotomayor for not being a wilting violet. "She commands attention, she's clearly in charge, she speaks her mind, she's funny, she's voluble, and she has ownership over the role in a very positive way," she said. "She's a fine Second Circuit judge--maybe not the smartest ever, but how often are Supreme Court nominees the smartest ever?"

    I haven't read enough of Sotomayor's opinions to have a confident sense of them, nor have I talked to enough of Sotomayor's detractors and supporters, to get a fully balanced picture of her strengths. It's possible that the former clerks and former prosecutors I talked to have an incomplete picture of her abilities. But they're not motivated by sour grapes or by ideological disagreement--they'd like the most intellectually powerful and politically effective liberal justice possible. And they think that Sotomayor, although personally and professionally impressive, may not meet that demanding standard. Given the stakes, the president should obviously satisfy himself that he has a complete picture before taking a gamble.

    Jeffrey Rosen is the legal affairs editor at The New Republic.

    From the second story:

    I was satisfied that my sources's concerns were widely shared when I read Sotomayor's entry in the Almanac of the Federal Judiciary, which includes the rating of judges based on the collective opinions of the lawyers who work with them. Usually lawyers provide fairly positive comments. That's what makes the discussion of Sotomayor's temperament so striking. Here it is:

    Sotomayor can be tough on lawyers, according to those interviewed. "She is a terror on the bench." "She is very outspoken." "She can be difficult." "She is temperamental and excitable. She seems angry." "She is overly aggressive--not very judicial. She does not have a very good temperament." "She abuses lawyers." "She really lacks judicial temperament. She behaves in an out of control manner. She makes inappropriate outbursts." "She is nasty to lawyers. She doesn't understand their role in the system--as adversaries who have to argue one side or the other. She will attack lawyers for making an argument she does not like."

    Not all of Sotomayor's lawyers' evaluations in other areas were this negative. As the Almanac puts it "most of lawyers interviewed said Sotomayor has good legal ability," and "lawyers said Sotomayor is very active and well-prepared at oral argument." I acknowledged both of these views in the piece.

    Some readers have also questioned my confession at the end of the piece that I hadn't read enough of her opinions to make a fully confident judgment. Perhaps I conceded too much: I had read enough of her opinions to find them good but not great--like much of the competent but not especially distinctive writing that characterizes most federal appellate opinions. In the past few days, I've read many more opinions, and nothing has called my initial judgment into question. For what it's worth, that judgment is consistent with that of the lawyers in the Federal Almanac:

    Lawyers interviewed said Sotomayor writes good opinions. "Her opinions are O.K, by and large." "She writes very clear and careful prose in her opinions." "Her writing is good." "Her opinions are generally well-reasoned and well-argued." "She writes well." "She is a very good writer." "Her writing is not distinguished, but is perfectly competent."

    Some readers have questioned my account of how "a conservative colleague, Ralph Winter, included an unusual footnote in a case suggesting that an earlier opinion by Sotomayor [United States v. Samaria] might have inadvertently misstated the law in a way that misled litigants." Indeed, the footnote is hardly a model of clarity-and I can see why readers might not come to the same conclusion I reached. But the careful observers of the Second Circuit I talked to, who were familiar with the case, said Winter was widely assumed to be making an effort to be polite, avoiding direct criticism of his colleague while trying to distinguish Sotomayor's holding in Samaria from some loosely written dicta. In their view, Sotomayor's dicta in Samaria could indeed be read to call the earlier cases into question, just as the litigants suggested, and they believe Winter was trying to contain the damage to avoid embarrassing his colleague.
     
  10. thadeus

    thadeus Member

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    I am making a post in a basso thread!
     
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  11. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    With all due respect, please stick to words to which you know the meaning.

    I do not seek power or office or even popularity. I do not have a bully pulpit. I do not even own a soapbox on which to stand. So how am I "a leader who makes use of popular prejudices and false claims and promises in order to gain power?" (Meriam-Webster)
     
    #71 thumbs, Jun 29, 2009
    Last edited: Jun 29, 2009
  12. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    from wiki

     
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  13. thumbs

    thumbs Member

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    First, never believe anything you read in Wiki. Second, whereas I often disagree with A_3PO, he is not an idiot. Third, I am not preaching when I wonder, as when I said I "sometimes wonder whether he (Obama) is an American citizen in spirit." Wondering is neither true nor untrue.
     
  14. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    so what do you wonder he might else be in spirit
     
  15. vlaurelio

    vlaurelio Member

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    ah yes you'd rather believe basso, tj, & bigtexx.. and the TEA party sponsors (faux news)..
     
  16. El_Conquistador

    El_Conquistador King of the D&D, The Legend, #1 Ranking

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    Whatever, I never once accused you of being drunk when you were hit by the car in Amsterdam.
     
  17. Qball

    Qball Member

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    mannnn this is one ugly thread :eek:
     
  18. The_Yoyo

    The_Yoyo Member

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    thadeus FTW!
     
  19. FranchiseBlade

    Supporting Member

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    Looking at this decision by the supreme court it looks like they went out of their way to not be critical of the 2nd circuit court's decision. I think basso is once again showing that he's tackled subject matter that he doesn't actually have a firm understanding of.
     
  20. mc mark

    mc mark Member

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    He also neglects to point out that Soto was only one of a three judge panel on the decision.

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