Something to remember about Kevin McHale for folks who don't understand the "benching" thing...

Thank you. That kind of thinking just show how some people don't understand the competitiveness of professionals. They want to show they can be the best and play against the best.

 

How's Asik a better choice at PF position than other players? How could you argue that Patrick impacts the game as much as Lin as a starter, when he started ZERO game in regular season last year? How does that qualify as "deserving", simply because some "believe so"? Then, there is no need for any discussion.

 

I missed the part where Jeremy Lin won't be playing "with the best and against the best".

Did Ginobli not play against the best players? Did Harden not play against the best players?

And you last statement doesn't make any sense at all, and a terrible analogy. It's more like my current job is working under a manager in the head department doing menial tasks, but the boss decides to transfer me to a sub department where I could be the manager there instead.

 

Good to see this view coming from someone who’s been on CF since 2003, people on CF make a assumption that (LOF) have positive things to say about lin and may disagree with decisions mchale makes in regards to Lin. If you read on the Houston chronicle board which I’m sure its older fans who have been rocket fans for quite some time, there board is always upset with mchale and totally different from what I see here on CF and I guarantee they are not (LOF)

 

It does because it was well written, made a good point, and showed nice highlights of Mchale putting every big man in the NBA through a popcorn machine.

 

Don't be so quick. I am Chinese, so I am automatically qualified as YOF or LOF, in some eyes', when they disagree with me.

 

I love Manu, and he's one of kind. Him coming off the bench was part of the Spurs success story, and he closes games. Every single one in the Spurs organization, including Pop, TD, Parker, and all the fans, including some Internet high standard noble guys, keep on and on, raving about how much sacrifice Manu has made for the team success. Nobody dishes out the crap about how the other guys are more deserving to start or how it's NOT a sacrifice at all.

Harden closes games too. As soon as he got the chance to be the Alpha Dog, he went for it. THAT is human nature, and I want to see such drive in players.

Lin is nowhere near at the level of Manu or Harden, but since you brought up as analogy, let me show you how differently they were treated.

Oh, btw, your analogy of being the head of a sub-department is just wishful thinking. It would be more like you are still in the same department but you and your deputy switched roles, simply because you were sick for a few days.

Money is essential, but it surprisingly doesn't rank very high in employment satisfaction criteria. Things like control, challenge, recognition, security, etc are rated higher by employees. So the camp of "he's getting paid so he should be happy whatever" can tell themselves in their own job. The camp of "every individual should sacrifice for the collective (but I get to decide what good for collective means)", can find a job in North Korea propaganda department.

 

Asik isn't a better choice at PF. He would be the center, and Howard would be the PF, in such a lineup. Its understood by most here that Asik and Howard don't complement each other particularly well, so Asik should come off the bench. I'm just pointing out that some people feel the same way with Lin and Harden.

Same way people could argue that Lowry would impact the game as much or more as a starter compared to Brooks. You look at what he does in the minutes he gets, including the minutes in which he faces starter-level players, you consider his skills and other intangible qualities he brings to the table (competitiveness, toughness, desire), and you make a projection.

Isn't that what this all comes down to -- what we believe about a player and the role he should play for the good of the team? Isn't that the case for everyone?

 

As I already said, if Lin is in the starting line-up, he is sacrificing even more. He would not be able to utilize his abilities to the fullest.

That didn't happen. Harden was willing to stay in OKC and continue to be the 6th man of the team for the chance of a championship and a dynasty. Of course, Harden is happy with a different opportunity, but if Sam Presti had offered the contract Harden wanted, things could be very different. A lot of players want to win, not just play for money (of course money is important too).

They were treated with much respect, if that's what you were implying. You would hardly find anyone who thought of their role as a demotion or a "lesser role".

Yes, switching roles, but nonetheless just as important. In fact, the new role you have now has more responsibility than before.

So isn't Lin getting more challenges and control by leading the 2nd unit rather than being the 3rd/4th option and secondary ballhandler in the first unit? I don't see how being the 6th man is any less challenging.

 

So it's not about Patrick more deserving or better? I am glad we got that cleared.

As you said, it's an argument about potentially complementing Harden better (although Lin & Harden showed they could coexist very well). I agreed with that argument many times already. It's a possibility, that bringing Lin from the bench could provide more offense for the 2nd unit, and more importantly, Harden can have the ball in his hands all the time. Harden is more important to the Rockets, so it's Lin who has to adjust and make changes, albeit not in his best interest. But hey, team first, and max players first. I never have any problem with that.

The only thing I have problem with is bunch of posters, even in such situation, refuse to give Lin credit for putting team first, and sacrificing. They try so hard to paint it as if it's all done in Lin's best interest or PB is more deserving or even the team is doing Lin a favor.

 

The term is "sacrifice"

 

Good, then we are in agreement that whatever's best for the team is ultimately what should dictate the player rotations.

Regarding whether we should credit a certain player for "sacrificing", that depends on what we think he is owed. Some may think a player is owed nothing more than his salary, but I don't quite believe that. We generally want the better individual players to be rewarded more. That's how you motivate players to keep working on their game throughout the year. And being a starter is definitely viewed as an honor and has benefits in terms of how the player is respected by peers and fans and other team execs, and then of course there are monetary implications. I don't want to make it seem like that doesn't matter to players, because it does and for good reasons. So, yes, if Lin is the better player, just in terms of his individual abilities, then we should acknowledge him conceding the starting spot to a lesser player as a sacrifice.

Those here who are unwilling to acknowledge this as a sacrifice are evidently not convinced that Lin is the better player. You can strongly disagree with the basketball sense of that perspective, but of course there's nothing wrong (morally speaking) about that view unless you think its due to some racial bias or something.

 

Please read the full post and not take things out of context.

 

Nice post.

People unwilling to acknowledge it as a sacrifice seem to be in at least two camps.

One camp is that is getting paid, his job is to do what the coaches say, so ipso facto there is no sacrifice.

Another camp is that Beverley is better, so there is no sacrifice.

 

And, by the way, I'd put McHale in the group that would say he is doing the job he is paid for. That isn't a sacrifice. At least, that is what he would say publicly.

 

Nice post as usual. Another analogy to which most of us can relate is if we were asked to switch job titles with someone that we manage, but if our roles (day to day duties) essentially stay the same. The fact as has been mentioned numerous times is that Harden is going to play 37-40 minutes most nights (even more in competitive/important games), so there is only going to be 8-11 minutes maximum where Lin gets to be the primary ballhandler. Whether Lin gets to start amounts to an honor or title, so to speak, as Lin would get the same minutes to be the primary ballhandler regardless of whether he starts or not.

I'm not sure many of us would be happy, content, or even neutral about getting a title demotion (but keeping the pay and duties the same), for numerous obvious reasons.

 

Quite frankly I don't get why you guys keep arguing about it. If Rox long term solution is playing Jeremy from bench, he will be gone in a year or two. So is Asik. These two guys can be starters for at least a dozen of teams.

There are always starter quality players willing to play lifelong backup in NBA, however, very few of them have the popularity of Lin.

And please don't bring up Manu. He is one of kind and he plays starter minutes and get paid like a starter.

 

This is what I've been curious about. If you move Lin to the bench that's $20 mil (cash paid, not salary cap) for 2year service of a 6th man. Said Les/Morey don't want to pay that wouldn't it make sense for Morey to move him before trade deadline? Move him any later and who wants to shell out $15mil in cash for that last year, even if an expiring contract. I guess my other question is, if Rox are looking to move his contract, will bringing him of the bench add more value at this point. After all his stats were depressed by Harden's presence & you're not going to find a taker if he's putting out a below-to-average production. Anyway, this post is more curious than trying to prolong the starting/6th man debate. I really just wonder if Les would pay that much for a bench player if that does become Lin's fate on this team.