hahahahahahahahaha...... you just slay me Conquistador.... what you showed was the difference between a shill's post and one of someone who can look at what is really happening and make a statement. outsourcing costs Americans jobs....there is absolutley NO WAY to argue against that fact...just because it makes your stupid stock worth more doesnt do a DAMN THING for normal job seeking Americans in the fields of work that are being outsourced... get thee away from me satan,
I was merely commenting on the group that you were mentioning. The owners make a profit and their standard of living might increase. Meanwhile the workers who lost jobs have a definite decrease in their standard of living. And that profit is made because workers in other countries aren't protected and kept from working 60 hour plus work weeks, at low wages, in substandard conditions. That may be a good thing to some people, but it's not how I like seeing business done. Nor is it anything I want to support.
If you're really against outsourcing....you should be trying to 'buy american' Those of you touting Hondas over Chevy's are not doing your part. "outsourcing" is just a fancy term of internally buying services from outside the country.
The United States of America has one of the highest standards of living in the world. But to maintain this we must continually increase our productivity. Not to be rude, but the technology support industry began paying very high sums because of lack of an abundent labor force when it began, but it is not specialized labor. If it can be done in India for half as much, why should they pay you more? All it will do is increase costs to the rest of society for goods and services because you feel you're entitled to more because you're American. By Kerry's silly protectionist measures all he is doing is delaying the inevitable US demise of many working industries. It is simply not feasible for the US to have low productive industries and continually grow GDP year after year. Have an education and add value to a company and you will be compensated for a portion of that value. Companies are here to make a profit for their shareholders, not give you a job.
It depends on your perspective. Obviously, if you are the one laid off, it has cost you a job. In the example cited in the Star-Tribune article, the company would have gone out of business had they not outsourced. They outsourced a piece of their business, but, in so doing, they kept their compnay afloat and have increased their workforce in Minnesota by 400 people. Again, according to the article, outsourcing created a net increase of 90,000 IT jobs in 2003.
The fact is that we are just beginning to study and understand the effect that offshore outsourcing has on jobs in the U.S. The initial consensus seems to be that offshore outsourcing has actually created jobs in the U.S. and is a net gain for our balance of trade (i.e., more foreign companies offshore outsource to the U.S. than visa versa). I could provide links (I have written a chapter in a book about outsourcing that will be published next month), but I am too busy at the moment. I am sorry if you have lost a job to outsourcing, but flinging poo with T_J is like rocking in a rocking chair .... it gives you something to do but it doesn't get you anywhere.
well, firstly....they may have been paying too much for support jobs...but I havent seen any of it...but then again...that isnt my specialty...Im a network administrator, not a technical support worker...but right now the market has been flooded with out of work software engineers that are willing to take anything they can get...which pushes those of us just starting in the industry out of the running for alot of jobs since most companies will hire the out of work software engineer with yea much experience over the guys coming out of school with degrees. outsourcing technology jobs floods the market and makes it damn near impossible to get on anywhere for the new technology worker...that is more hard working Americans that cant work in their chosen field because that job has been sent overseas... Call me crazy, but instead of creating jobs for people in other companies, why dont we take care of our own first? As far as Im concerned...America first, f*ck the rest.(at least when it comes to jobs anyway) Have an education?? well, ya know what? I spend over half of my time every week tryin to finish my degree so I can go out there and do a fair days work for a fair days pay.....since when was that not in our countrie's best interest? It isnt my fault that companies in the early days of tech decided to pay outrageous amounts for their workers...Im not asking for a lot....I would gladly administer any network for under 50k a year.. There are other ways of slashing costs in those service sectors than sending our jobs overseas.... and that doesnt even get into the parts of outsourcing that doesnt affect me personally(which FB so aptly brought up)....the humanitarian aspects of foreign labor relations isnt my primary concern...but can easily be a secondary factor in my opposition to outsourcing... this shouldnt be a political discussion.....but since this is a election year...I suppose it is unavoidable.. to me, it comes down to me being tired of us taking better care of foreign citizens than we do our own....
True enough. But some believe it's one of the government's roles to create an environment that enhances everyones well being. To create a framework that would encourage corporate decisions that are not detrimental to societal goals. That's why we have polution laws, labour laws, and the like (even though they're not necessarily good for the ol' bottom line). Punitive payroll taxes, the lack of universal healthcare (which means employers pay high health premiums rather than the cost being borne by everyone though (ugh!) taxes), and the like may contribute to higher costs. The Gov has to look at this in creating policy. I see 'outsourcing' as no different from free-trade. Not nearly as bad as some of the nay-sayers would have you think, but worth consideration in framing policy. I think it's been harnessed as a bit of a motherhood issue by the 'left' and manipulated to represent something it isn't. But then...what 'Hot' issue isn't? As long as the sound bite zings, right? It simply IS protectionism. Maybe that's Ok. But it's nothing new. Specific services are being imported, where before it was primarily products (which were manufactured by....jobs....). And somehow, business and individuals adapt. Services are more difficult to import, of course, because they depend on....service!...so it's not like steel production where the conditions of the workforce can be inhumane. And gov policy can control from whom we can import. Anyone who says our standard of living has declined from the 50's should have a chat with their grand pappies. How often did they buy new cars? How big was their house? What toys and appliances did the they have? How many phones? What vacations did they take? How accessable was college? The 'middle class' simply had a lot more stuff. And a lot more opportunity.
heh...it is rather obvious isnt it? yes, outsourcing and the in general downtrend in the technology sector has cost me work...and when push comes to shove....dont we make most of our decisions based on how they effect us as individuals? and Pipe.....thanks for bringing some pespective for me....you are entirely correct.....I dont know why I even bother responding....all it does is waste my time typing it...and yalls time reading it... point noted...and acted upon... carry on..
"Good evening Sir, my name is Steve. I come from a rough area. I used to be addicted to crack but now I am off it and trying to stay clean. That is why I am selling magazine subscriptions." sorry, couldn't resist...
Rockets2K, I am sorry for your situation, as the market is flooded with people of this skillset. But you cannot think of it in terms of taking care of ours versus theirs. It is a cost factor. The goal of corporations is to make money, period. The government has little or nothing to do with them. If we restrict our companies more and more, they will simply leave the US completely and we will lose more jobs. The problem was that there was a huge spike in demand for your field so a LOT of people entered the field, then when the realization occured that it can be done much cheaper abroad there was an abudance of people in the field w/o a job. The important thing is to get your degree which can never be replaced and learn a service skill which cannot be replicated for $5 dollars an hour and lunch in a third world country. Doesn't it say something about you needing better or more specific skills if it can be sent to India or Pakistan to be done? Again, sending jobs there lowers the costs of products and services for all Americans therefore increasing their spending ability in other areas and creating jobs in other industries. Though there is a much more direct loss of American jobs w/ outsourcing, there is a not as easily recognizable gain in jobs and productivity from it. Instead of questioning corporations, question how you can improve your skills. Corporations think very logically. If you can prove that you will make the firm more money than it costs to retain you, then any firm in the world will hire you. If a company is losing money by retaining you then why should they hire you? You are not entitled to anything as an American besides your freedom and an opporunity.
R2K...I feel for you brother! You've found a career you want...and there's an undersupply of jobs! You've hit it pretty good, though. IT jobs simply were overpaid! People were getting very generous money, when some really were less qualified then the underpaid secretaries that ran the old telex and word processing machines. Technicians earning salaries that were much much higher than their piers. But that's the law of supply and demand. ANd you're getting hit with the flipside! The software improved. And the talent pool expanded. When I graduated from University (back in.....the late 80's ) there was ONE graduate with a computer major in the business faculty(wasn't me ). And none of us could figure out what kind of a job he'd be qualified for...I doubt that's the case today! So too many people able to the job. Not enough jobs. Equally qualified people overseas. Doesn't bode well...but you don't need me to tell you that. Keep slugging. It's still a very odd field. I see some people getting paid crazy money for the same job others would be happy to do for next to nothing. It's possibly much easier for me to theorize and speculate on macro consequences then it is for you who's getting hit with the micro realities. And who's to say who's right. It's just a much more complex issue than many realize. Would you pay more for a Chevy, made in America, then you would for a Honda if you knew they had and American workforce (including IT department)? Some people claim they would...but few do in practice.
chirp chirp chirp ..... Are all of your school loans paid off? How much you carrying on those credit cards? ...
Within the information technology sector nationwide, the money saved by global outsourcing led to the net creation of 90,000 IT jobs in 2003 This pegs my BS meter. I think that it may be possible to track actual US jobs offshore outsourced, but I don't think it is possible to know how many new jobs are created outright in India et al that would have been created here in The States 10 years ago. Methinks that Global Insight found the answer they were looking for. BTW, if we net 90K IT jobs, I have not seen that in the Houston market.
Just so you get it right next time, Indian IT workers make between $10-15K per year. At best that is 5 to 1 ratio. US employees actually get a benefit package to go with their salary, so the the 5 to 1 ratio is easily understated. If you have a job, white or blue collar no matter, that can be done in India or China, the question is not if people in your field will lose their jobs to ofshore outsourcing, it is when.
Not if the Hondas are assembled in Indiana ... BTW, buying American is d*mn hard. Locating Made In America products is next to impossible.
