Some News (and Hey Pee may be right afterall .....)

That would be my read on "costly."

Probably not including Cat, but certainly costing us just about all other possibilities, such as keeping some pieces we might like to keep (KT), losing some key draft pieces, forgoing free agent opportunities, and taking on someone else's cap problem.

Sounds like Washington.

Gotta do it for the future of the club.

------------------
"We're having a pretty good time considering one day we're all going to die." Steve Martin, 1976

[This message has been edited by PinetreeFM60 (edited June 22, 2001).]

 

I'm sorry guys. I do not see how a draft day trade effects our salary cap position ANY!

Hakeem cannot be traded on draft day, so how does a trade cause us to lose the ability to renounce him? There is a 15% rule on trades. We cannot increase our salary more that 15% of the salary we are moving. That is less than $2m on anything I can think of.

Think it through. I could be wrong, and there could be some super weird way for Jordan to talk Stern into allowing a future considerations Sign-n-Trade whereby Jordan gets a promise from us AND Dream to SnT Dream at a later date, but I'm pretty sure that kind of promise with a player who IS NOT ALLOWED TO BE TRADED RIGHT NOW is illegal.

I've said this in two places already, asking aelliott, and he is remaining silent, which usually means that he is not certain either. Or he didn't read the post...lol.

 

I have to admit, I am pissing my pants over this possibility.

I just have this feeling that we have seen Dream play his last game as a Rocket and that we are out of the Webber hunt, but the thought of the Rockets getting one of these top center prospects has me salivating.

------------------
"We're having a pretty good time considering one day we're all going to die." Steve Martin, 1976

 

HP,

I am unclear on this, but any trade on draft day involving salaried players isn't set in stone until Aug 1st, which I believe is the day hakeem can be renounced. I haven't heard of any rule saying that teams can't agree on a trade before hand and make it later as long as free agents aren't involved. Teams pick for one another, but you don't believe they have the trust to wait a month to make a deal.

Rogers could be thrown in who the other team could opt out on. I don't expect the rockets to take on any salary over 5 million.

------------------

 

oeilpere,

"Most likely something like Boston trading off #10 and #11 and getting the #13,#23 and a player"...i was wondering if u know who we have that boston would want? i know they need a PG and they can easily get one at 13. or maybe they are interested in richard Jefferson and pairing him up with pierce and walker....
maybe they can get an ok player at 23, but what player do we have to trade that would make them do the deal? is kenny thomas + 13 and 23 good enough for 10 and 11?
also i think boston would only do this if they themselves cant move up first...

also i dont think 13, 18, and cato is gonna be good enough for chicago's 4. but 10, 11, and cato? thats better!!


------------------
Howdy Partner!

 

If we can get a franchise player, I'm not too concerned about losing in the webber sweepstakes. We can always resign mo and sign some solid role players in that case.

Pops, will CD consider griffen at 4?

------------------
Draftsource.net

 

JJ,

My understanding is that we can only trade signed players right now. The only reason the Bender/Davis trade did not consummate immediately is because Davis' salary was incalculable at the time of the trade, just a pure accounting issue. Here is the note from NBA Daily of the trade.

So what does this mean. On draft day, we can only trade players who will not be a free agent. We can actually trade Cato and Walt right now. Everything else is illegal.

If it isn't, then I will never understand this CBA thing.

 

Someone explain to me in Salary Cap terms, how we lose in the Webber sweepstakes via a draft day trade.

Until someone can figure this out, let's not continue propogating the likely false assumption. The CBA is clear that Dream cannot be traded on draft day, so the trade cannot move his salary for a longterm salary, which is the only way we could ruin our Webber position.

 

The "costly" part would double if we gave up all that for a top 4 choice and then used it on Woods, as suggested. The thought of that happening is frightening. The Rockets can't be that sold on a skinny guy with a bad back, can they?

------------------

 

Hmmmm. Let me do the math. Dream is 38 and wants $20 mil for two years @ 60 games per year, at 24 mpg....let's see...carry your two...divide by ....

No friggin way do we pass up a chance to get Brown!!!!!!!*

*Or one of the other top, top big men.

------------------
"We're having a pretty good time considering one day we're all going to die." Steve Martin, 1976

[This message has been edited by PinetreeFM60 (edited June 22, 2001).]

 

HP,

Who said anything about trading a FA? Rogers still has a team option for an additional year if what I've heard is correct. The rockets don't have to tell Hakeem ahead of time that they're waiving him on the first.

What's wrong with the rockets telling another team they'll be under the cap later, let's do it then?

Dr of Dunk,

The Morris Bandwagon started over a year ago I'm guessing around January 2000. He was mentioned by about eight people in the thread, http://bbs.clutchcity.net/ubb/Forum9/HTML/000606.html . I've watched him a few times in 2000 and a couple of games this year. There has been a resurgence of talk about him lately since the endorsement.

[This message has been edited by Joe Joe (edited June 22, 2001).]

 

I will post my predictions:

No way they go for Loren Woods in the top 5. Some reports are showing that Haywood has surpassed Woods in individual workouts. With Rad and Gasol almost guaranteed to be picked in the top 12, that will send alot of players (and centers) down to the Rockets (Woods, Haywood and possible Diop).

Diop will be avilable around #8 or lower, if that is who the Rockets want.

My prediction is that Eddy Curry is who they want to trade up for. They know that they will need a big body to compete against Shaq. I know it was mentioned that they want a outside shooting center, but that might be a smoke screen.

Other prediction is Brown for PF, move Mo to SF and sign Marc Jackson via free agency for center, with Collier backing up. Webber is a dead issue, he has been so active working out in Sac with his fellow team mates that he will stay in Sac or move to the East.

Thank god it appears that Rudy is off the senior trip, I would hate for them to give up so much and end up with Battier.

------------------

 

I have to disagree. There is no player that Pop's hates more than Walt. I think that #3 definitely refers to Walt

------------------

 

This has already been settled by aelliott. Webber, Dream, Mo', Shandon, Rogers, Bullard cannot be traded on draft day, nor can we work out a deal right now.

I'm confused here. I thought you were saying we wouldn't be under the cap, thus we wouldn't be in the Webber sweepstakes. Tell me again what you meant by "costly trade" and blowing the Webber sweepstakes.

I've been saying that we can still be under the cap. That any draft day trade doesn't hurt us cap-wise in our ability to renounce Dream and land Webber.

 

HP,

Sorry for the confusion. Sick last two days and I didn't give it the KISS treatment.

Early on August 1st, Hakeem and any other rocket FA is waived to get under cap. The rockets never talk to Hakeem , Bull, etc.

Later, the rockets trade for rights to player from 2001 draft (top five pick) for rights to players from 2001 draft (13, 18, 23) and players with existing bloated contracts on Aug 1st.

The trade is agreed on at the draft or before, but the teams wait for the Rockets to settle their salary cap issues.



------------------

 

sure, that can happen.

But I think it is too complicated to execute or count on, especially if each team has specific players they want selected.

Example: why would Jordan draft Brown for us if he really wants Griffin, with the promise that we will renounce Dream later and use our cap space on Mitch Richmond. Will Stern actually allow them to pen that in writing?

"Stern: The Rockets talk Jordan into picking for them on the promise to renounce Dream in the future and do a stupid trade for Richmond. In return, the Wizards draft Kuama Brown and promise to exchange him for the rookies that the Rockets picked for them, plus Cato and Walt."

My point is: I think the most outragious dreamcasting we can do is to assume we can cut a future considerations mega-blockbuster likely 3-way whether via handshake or in writing! I can't refute your scenario, but I can mention Ockham's Razor.

 

4chuckie,

I don't think this team is going to have to be worried about having Cato, Collier, and an 18 yr. old at center. I think we are talking about Mr. Jackson, Diop or Curry, and maybe Collier.

------------------
"Age is strictly a case of mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter" -- Jack Benny

 

Was just about to post this. Yeah, no question #3 is Walt.

I hope Oeilpere's right that Walt, Cato, #13 and #18 is "too costly," because that's a "too costly" I'm very willing to take. I'm just fine picking up T Mo at the #23, but even if not, I think many of us have proposed trades of this sort only to be criticized for being unrealistic. Even if this means picking up an equal amount of dead salary (in the form of Richmond, for example) I'd do it, because our projected caproom wouldn't decrease any.



------------------
"All you need is love."

 

Allow me to reiterate myself: If the Rockets draft Curry, Brown, or Griffin I will nut in my pants.

------------------
"Oh No..."
-Bill Walton in 97 just before Stockton's buzzer beater

 

Ockham's Razor: With all things being equal, the simplest, most workable model/theory is often the best.

------------------