Some info about PS3 ease of development + general Cell info

I know about those...in fact, we were already discussing one of those earlier in the thread if you read along.

BTW, here's some info about recalls from other big names in the business:
http://www.engadget.com/2005/02/17/microsoft-recalls-hot-xbox-cords/
http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml05/05004.html
Must be some industry-wide issue with adapters/power cords or something.

So yeah, Sony has had to recall the adapters...but so have big names like Microsoft (on a FAR greater % of their userbase) and Dell...yet, I don't see people avoiding those companies due to their unreliable systems; in fact, I see Dell computers recommended often here (and agree with those recommendations). Again, I doubt Sony will ever have Nintendo-type reliability (especially since they'll tend to offer more in their box) with their systems, but I can't see their reliability being much worse that say a Microsoft console or a Dell system. Going by anecdotal evidence, it sounds like a lot of Xbox consoles are starting to die lately or have DRE issues, so therefore, I guess everyone should just avoid any console without the name Nintendo on it...despite the fact that you might want more than it offers.

As for the PSP, not sure what you mean there exactly other than possibly some stuck/dead pixels for some PSPs. But then again, if those are "defective," several LCD makers (especially for smaller screens) would be in trouble.

 

Hehe...I'm sure there's plenty of evidence that some Sony products have defects; it would be pretty impressive if there were ~200M PS systems (~215M counting the PSP), and every one of them was in perfect condition, even to this day. What I want to see is proof that Sony systems are unreliable, which I guess can be a bit vague (which is why I compare the system(s) to other devices). I mean, if we're talking about general reliability, then no, they aren't that reliable. If you can't stand having a device possibly having some issues in a few years, a Playstation may not be for you. But then again, high-end electronics may not be for you. That's why I've been bringing in other products. Sure, you can complain about dead pixels on the PSP screen, but what alternative do you have if nearly every device similar to the PSP has the same issues (if not even more issues)?

And FWIW, I didn't say the competition makes bad products. If you assume Playstations are bad products, then I'd say the others are as well. Personally, I think products from Dell and Microsoft have at least decent reliability (if not better), and since they have the same reliability issues as Sony, I'd say Sony probably isn't too far off in reliability terms as well. Oh, and as I said earlier, if Playstations are "bad" products, then the tie-ratios for both systems are absolutely unreal. An average of 10 games per console is pretty good if a large portion of those consoles breaks down often and consumers are forced to buy another one (splitting their games total across multiple systems).

As I said earlier, I don't think they do make bad products. But due to the nature of these high-end electronic devices, they've had some issues that affected a (usually small) percentage of their userbase. Same thing for Sony, only a small percentage for them turns out to be a LOT of people ("massive" PS2 adapter recall affected less than 4% of the PS2 userbase). Luckily for consumers, these companies sometimes offer aid to these people, despite the small percentages and severity of the "defects."

Of course I'll point out other companies that are guilty of this. The reason being that this is a problem with all devices in this business. Moving parts break down after a while; thing quit working under poor storage conditions; Playstations may experience some issues if you drop it on its side a few times. The more complex these devices become, the higher the chance for error. When you buy something, be it a Playstation or a Dell Laptop, you suffer the chance of having a device that doesn't do what it is advertised to do once time passes. Again, generally speaking, these products might be unreliable...but companies make them any way and people buy them. So the only other thing to do is compare them in relative terms. Under that condition, I think "unreliable" might be a bit of a stretch if you use it to describe Sony products.

But if you want me to just throw out the "everyone else does it excuses," I'll do that. Looking just at these Sony products and ignoring every other product out there, they are completely unreliable since there will be wear and tear on the machines every time you turn it on to play a game (or movie or whatever). As times goes by, more and more systems will have problems and break down. 1/100,000 adapters might get pretty hot in a closed-off area. After several years of use, the PSP's screen may have a ton of scratches and look far worse than when it was first bought. By the time the PS4 comes out, I'm sure Sony might have had some settlement(s) or recall(s) concerning the PS3 (or PSThree). Being a high-end electronic device that offers several features, the PS3 can't escape the laws that govern it and other devices.

But Sony, and other companies, do the best they can in order to make their products as reliable as possible IMO.

Actually, this was supposed to be a thread about the PS3's ease of development, as well as some general Cell info (which, by itself, could concern all consumer electronic devices). But as with most gaming threads, the topic tends to sway to other topics (usually done by me..even in my own threads).

However, if you want, I can leave those other things out of it. However, I guess I might have to offer a disclaimer in future video card threads stating that you might be 1 of 10,000 people who might have your card die on you in 3 years if you buy this ATi Radeon xxxx. Perhaps I should mention in every PC thread that Dell PCs are very unreliable because a voluntary recall was issued for ~1M of their laptops. Maybe I should tell fadeway that whatever game(s) he picks, it/they may have several scratches in 10 years if he plays a lot. And the list goes on and on. As you can see though, this really isn't much of a "problem" and it isn't necessary to point out. I see the reliability issues that Dell and Microsoft (both for the Xbox 1 and the 360) are having as issues that every company in their industry is having. Relatively speaking, the reliability on these products isn't that bad.

I did read the article, but I read it when Invisible Fan posted it earlier. I addressed that earlier in the thread.

 

"Another thread about XBOX360's overheating problems or whatever problem Nintendo's consoles have" would probably be the first here in the Hangout; AFAIK, I don't think I've ever said anything bad regarding the Xbox 360's issues (overheating, noisy, freezing/dying, etc.) or any Nintendo console problems (can't even think of any there). Some threads in other forums seem dedicated to bashing MS for the 360's reliability, but I don't really blame MS so much since that just seems like normal issues you'll see with most console launches, especially those as complex as the 360.

Now, the shortages are something a little different. Of course, I didn't expect a large amount of consoles, and in fact, the ~1.3 million console they shipped last year isn't too bad of a number IMO (though it could have been better). So from a manufacturing POV, I see no issues with MS and the 360. Now, what I do have a problem with is that if they were having that much of a problem making the systems, there's no way they should have pushed for a worldwide launch, and basically stunted the growth in their largest region (NA). Heck, I'd probably take 1M in NA over 1.3M in the world under these circumstances. I have more of a problem with Peter Moore and some of the other head execs at MS than with the guys who engineered and built the thing. Other than that, I don't really have much to complain about concerning the launch of the 360.

You didn't directly, but I assumed you meant something like that when you kept mentioning "the competition makes bad products so we can also" excuse. Fair enough though. I shouldn't have assumed that.

I would like to see where I was insisting that Sony's products were perfect though; here's what I've been saying:

And then basically everything I said in my previous post. Now, what I have been insisting is that the issue has been a bit overblown, and that the Sony systems are about as reliable as other systems that offer the same features. That's my whole point. These systems are far from perfect, but I don't think PS2s break down as much as people seem to think (which, typically seems like some absurd number, like 20-25% or something like that). I'm just saying that if Nintendo's systems have say a 2-3% defect rate and the Xbox has a 4-5% defect rate, PS2s may be in the 5-7% range, and that might even be kind of harsh on the PS2 IMO.

I plan on doing just that.

Sorry, I actually didn't mean "you" you (using the general "you"), and I was quoting myself if anybody when I said "unreliable."

You won't see any reduction since I don't believe there's even anything to reduce, at least with posts/threads regarding their problems with reliability. As I've hinted at a few times already, Nintendo products tend to be about as reliable as you can get in a game console; not quite the same story for the Xbox line, but I doubt it is any worse than Sony's issues, and if so, it isn't by much. I imagine the PS line and XBX are actually pretty similar in terms of reliability, although the difference in userbase might suggest that the PS line is far less reliable. Does that still count as being in harmony?

 

Just out of curiosity, but did you mean this quote?

I may not have made it clear then, but I was referring to Sony as "they". IOW, a lot of people have PS2 issues, but Sony may not want that to "get out," even if the number is but a small percentage of the userbase. 1M people sounds like a lot more than 1% of the userbase.

Sorry if that's not what you meant, but I just wanted to make that clear since the two sounded alike.

Perhaps DREs (which may not even be classified as a defect, depending on your definition of it) or the breaking down issue just isn't as severe as you think it is. Or maybe not, and out of the 100M PS2s out there, 20-40M of them are sitting in dumpsters, far beyond repair. I just tend to think it is more reasonable to assume that Sony produces systems with a similar amount of reliability as their competition, but due to their success in the console world, people over exaggerate the whole reliability issue. To me, it just seems like the small percentage of PS2 users (which turns out to be a HUGE number) are just really vocal about their misfortune, and that somehow got turned into "OMG!!SONY SYSTEMS ARE MADE TO BREAK DOWN 1 MONTH AFTER THE WARRANTY!!!"

Maybe they are trying to hide this. As I said earlier, I'm sure they don't want to let others know that millions of people have problems with their PS2s, even if that numbers is within the range of an decent defect rate. Easier just to spend 15-30 minutes fixing the laser (or whatever is the most common way to fix DREs) than to deal with all those issues in court.

Don't really see how that is any different than the DS Lite or other redesigns by Nintendo. Or even iPods from Apple. I think it should be a no brainer than future PSPs would have better additions and a better power source....could there possibly be more colors and perhaps even a redesign of the PSP (clamshell design?) as well?

Let me try that:

Samsung's early adopters get screwed much more than other companies. Again, proof can only come from Samsung as a real study would get slapped with a lawsuit....

Seems pretty easy to say that for just about any company without proof. I know what you're saying though, and I also would like Sony (and the others for that matter) to somehow settle this all, even if it does show a result that would surprise me in the wrong way. But as you said, that isn't going to happen, no matter how much we would like it to happen. So we have to go to other evidence, which, IMO, doesn't support that claim.

BTW, funny story is that I go around today, asking some other CS students (AKA gamers basically) what they thought about the PS2's reliability. Strangely enough, I didn't get the answers I expected. "Solid" is the word I heard to describe the PS2, and any issues regarding replaced PS2's also included stories about breaking off the disc trey or opening up the PS2 and breaking something inside. One person even said they dropped a PS2 from a second story building and it still played fine. I actually heard some issues regarding Gamecube game playback and that it was sometimes difficult to keep the insides clean in order to play it. Anecdotal evidence for the win!

Hehe...eh, not quite, although you might be able to argue that since the GC doesn't require as much power as these other systems, the power cords the GC used may have been "safer" so to speak.

My reasons for Nintendo's reliability, besides the fact they probably are more reliable in general, is that Nintendo systems don't tend to follow the same exact path that Sony, MS and other companies travel down. The N64 didn't have disc problems because...well...it didn't use discs. The GC won't have many DREs since it only needs to read the GC format IIRC; it doesn't need to worry about whether or not the disc is a CD or DVD (or whatever other formats the others supported). Some Nintendo systems won't have to worry about being noisy or overheating since, well, those are usually associated with systems with hardware (CPU/GPU) that is more powerful than anything else out there at the time. Combine that with Nintendo's ability to often make a profit (or at worst, a small loss) on their systems, and then driving down manufacturing costs may not seem as important. Nintendo just worries about putting out a good gaming console that is reliable, and they've been able to do just that for a long time (and had success). That doesn't appear to be the goal of other companies (or at least the only goal), so naturally, they might offer more reliable systems than other companies.