Somali axe man attempts to kill 75 yr old Danish cartoonist for Muhammad cartoon

"Muslim guys" do not all believe the same things, to bunch them together like that is a little disturbing.

I've seen a lot more offensive stuff in the D&D where no crew member has said anything, now DD seems to have his own little personal security guard... a little uptight don't you think?..."Muslim guys" I guess get to you.

 

1+ billion people do the same thing. One white robe. One location. No tiers. No enemies. Every year. Millions of Muslims same place, same time, same everything.

Show me that kind of equality.

 

dont flatter yourself hoss I frankly don't give a rats patootie about religion.

I dont give a crap what ALL muslims care about...Im talking specifically to the ones in this thread that are whining about others not following their religions rules.


(mod cap on)

Like I posted, Keep the D&D IN the D&D. What offensive things get said in here...well that is a whole nother ball of wax that you need to take up with Clutch, I dont decide what is allowed to be said in here....but that isnt my concern in this case. If I have to get on others for their sigs, I have to get on all others I see.
(mod cap off)


EDIT: I wonder why it is you didnt care to respond to the salient points of what I wrote....could it be you do indeed think the rest of us should follow the rules of your religion?? There is nothing inflammatory about what I initially wrote...just nice clean logic.

Care to either address what I wrote as a non-moderator? Just in case you arent sure....it was the bit where I was NOT addressing MAthloom or hamza. I made sure to show which parts of this post are me moderating and me as a normal poster jsut in case you have trouble with that.


EDIT EDIT: Im sure DD is ROFLHAO at the thought of me protecting him....me and DD dont see eye to eye on hardly anything and we have had numerous dustups

 

Since we are talking about equality.....

How many women?

I believe the word you are now looking for in internet terms is PWNED !

DD

 

I think women are allowed from my understanding on wikipedia, just in proper clothing i believe with the head scarf.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hajj


I think it was a little bit over the top to post that nazi pic, but Mathloom seems a bit loony when it comes to religon and he is clearly not understanding the fine line between religon and democracy. While the cartoonist did something shameful to draw such a derogatory picture, he was well in line when it comes to free speech.

I do feel that mathloom was the only one with such views in this discussion so I also have to disagree with R2K statement encompassing other posters but he is right, when it comes to religon you have to realize not everyone shares the same beliefs and you should practice tolerance and patience towards different notions.

This argument will never end, Religous debates are useless.

 

This could have been handled more tactfully, especially by a mod. IMO, I saw some disagreements among the muslims in this thread itself.

 

Women perform Hajj as well at the same time and same location. Be careful with your assumptions and declarations.

 

I really think this is a major problem among many Muslims today. Religion is a vital part of many Muslims lives yet there is so much disagreement on issues minor and major.


And R2K, if you're a nonbeliever, then I(as a Muslim) don't expect you to follow the rules of Islam. That probably wasn't a question directed to me as I agree with you, but just wanted to point that out from a Muslim's perspective. Mathloom might feel differently which I don't agree with, which brings me back to my first point that many Muslims don't see eye to eye on certain issues.

 

I agree. I used one wrong word. Majority implies a specific quantity, and applied to such a large demographic, a significant quantity. I am not sure of the actual statistics of what actions were taken by how many Muslims in Middle East countries in the days after the 9/11 attacks. I'm sorry BrownBeast. I hope you will forgive such a grave oversight.

 

jsut what exactly was offensive about that.... the word sorry implies....well, feeling sorry for someone...in this instances a group of people.

Most of the folks here are male...so that explains the guys part.

and the group of people I was addressing my comments to are followers of Islam, who call themselves muslims.

the rest of it was a simple statement of fact. There is absolutely ZERO reason why I, as a non-muslim, should feel any inclination whatsoever to follow the rules of Islam.(especially so in regard to drawing or sculpting the image of their prophet, not that I am particularly inclined to do so, but the point remains)

now....praytell...exactly what part of the statement you quoted deserves your criticism, and just what exactly does this have to do with me being a moderator....am I not allowed to give my thoughts on subjects?

 

Yet it didn't just happen in "his sick twisted mind". That ship has sailed.

My opinion is that you think the cartoonist living the rest of his life in terror will either cleanse/mitigate the injustice and dishonor he has inflicted upon you and Muslims in general and/or make him face his wicked act for the harm or humiliation it brought enough for him to repent and apologize.

A Christian and sometimes Western mindset would consider God to deliver final punishment upon the cartoonist for his blasphemy. Others would consider two wrongs not making a right. Murdering the cartoonist by human hands makes things worse for everyone. By allowing your rage to condone the suffering of the cartoonist, you're supporting it passively. That mindset opens the crack for extremists to justify their acts with passive acceptance by the public. It's like the neighbor who murdered 2 burglars in the back. "Murder is bad, BUT if...". And we know the jury didn't passively support Joe Horn..

Furthermore, I don't see how having these violent and cruel thoughts helps a person spiritually. Despite our honor and pride defining us and the need to react to injustice, wishing this kind of harm to another person, perceived or real, will end up destroying your greater honor without you even realizing it. Isn't it enough that Muslims worldwide have a poorer opinion of Danes in general because of their defense of the cartoonist, and that poorer trade and relations are a result of the cartoonist?

Anyways, this topic could somehow serve to be a discussion on your opinions of justice whether it be your cultures, your religions and how both influence your personal justice because there is a lot of disagreement externally, let alone internally among ethnicities.

It could also be about spiritual ramifications because it seems like the Christian and Muslim viewpoints aren't similar but not neccessarily in the frame of right/wrong.

 

No sir, you have PWNED yourself because Hajj is littered with women since they have to follow the exact same rules.

No difference.

Stop hating, and rather than digging yourself a deeper hole, just stop showing that you understanding of my religion is nowhere near enough to take the position you take on it.

 

I don't want to argue with R2k since it seems he's made up his mind regardless.

This is not difficult to understand: I expect people to respect each others' religion (or lack of religion).

That doesn't mean I expect them to follow Sharia.

I don't have to follow Buddhist rules, but I do respect Buddhists and their beliefs.

You don't have to agree with someone to respect their beliefs. If the thought process has become that you shouldn't respect anyone but those who agree with you, then just tell me that.

 

If you really are unsure and want to know, it wreaks of stereotyping.

 

Yeah, I've read that book too. Sorry, no. Has nothing to do with honor, dignity, all this crap. I've made it a point to erase cultural baggage which has been thrown into Islam.

Muslims in general can think what they want, has nothing to do with me. I don't think Muslims in general deserve to speak of injustice.

Maybe an example will clarify this...

When you're younger, and a brother puts his hands near your face and starts singing "I'm not touching you, I'm not touching you!!" that is annoying. Nevertheless, he is not touching you. You are content to say screw off at first. Once you realize that your parents can see what's going on, and have warned your sibling that they will get into trouble with what theyre doing but the parents will not punish him....

Slap. Parents tell the slapper that he's grounded. Tell the slapee that he should have listened to them because he was asking for it. Slap must be punished, but there is some kind of sweet background justice in that the slapee will never play "I'm not touching you again."

This is not to say the slapee should never talk to the brother again. Just that for the forseeable future, that slap will ensure that they dont their right to talk by irritating other people intentionally and with no acceptable reason.

 

Sorry Mathloom, your true colors came out in this thread.

You have been exposed.

DD

 

Might've be an interesting "rehash" of a thread topic. Much better than other rehashes going on in D&D

I guess it's appropriate for you to give an analogy with children.

You're not the slapper though. You're more like a third brother who silently encourages one "brother" at the expense of another brother.

 

Exposed for what? Giving an opinion people will disagree about?

What does this post serve, DD?

 

But respect and tolerance are two very different things. As a non-Muslim, I need to tolerate your beliefs (for instance, on not having any visual depictions of Muhammad), but I don't have to respect them. I don't have to honor them by also refusing to draw pictures of him. I don't really have any strong drive to draw pictures of him, but if I did, you'd have to tolerate that.

Likewise, if I decide to do something that in your mind is reprehensible (like drawing said pictures), you certainly don't have to respect my decision, but you have to tolerate it. And coming at me with an axe is not a tolerant stance.

I know you're not advocating what the lunatic did - but you're not exactly coming quickly to the defense of a man who was threatened with murder when you say that you would hope that he fears for his life for the rest of his life, and that he "deserves everything that he is getting" (post 40).

Attempting to murder someone is certainly not tolerant, but neither is wishing ill upon someone (like a desire for him to be afraid for the remainder of his life).

 

My example isn't even that great, I should've said an attempted slap.

But you get the idea... I am the third brother. But I'm not encouraging anything. I'm just laughing after one brother was grounded and the other is feeling the after-effects of almost being slapped. I don't condone slapping, don't encourage it, don't think that the first brother SHOULDNT be punished, and can see that technically the second brother didn't do anything bad (after all, the rule is "no touching").

I swear, How I Met Your Mother - Slapsgiving II is way too stuck in my head lol. Keep picturing Barney flinching at every hand movement.