God you are so easily offended. Congrats on your hard work and hopefully you will reap the rewards. How am I greedy? Keeping more of the fruits of my labor rather than having it redistributed to the "underclass" is greedy? I'm not the money-grubbing b*stard you deeply offended little morons claim me to be. If I was, why would I be a journalist and not a stockbroker or some other more lucrative profession? ATL talk radio host Neal Boortz put it this way about poverty and he is right: That's the truth and for some people, the truth makes them mad. Greedy people don't spend summers from the time they were 14 until they were out of h/s working their asses off on shrimp boats to make money. Greedy people don't join the military out of h/s. Hard work and investment are a part of my genetics. I was constantly reminded by my father that a little hard work never hurt anybody. I've done nothing but all my life and continue to do so. My Dad's parents were part of this "underclass," as my grandfather lost his leg and eye in WWII. But my grandmother supported my father and his brother and sister by holding down two and three jobs. The only money they received from big Brother govt. was a measly pension for my grandfather and they did just fine! If hard work and the right decision making is not the way to material and personal success, clue me in to what is. Is it mooching off the govt. teat? I guess it is if you don't believe that hard work has a positive end game. So in conclusion, screw all of those people who hurled names because they were offended that I actually believe that redistribution of income is wrong and that people should be allowed to keep more of their own money (what a concept! So hurtful) rather than be forced to give it to govt. to piss down the drain. We have a perpetual underclass precisely because of this entitlement morass (the poverty pentagon as one observer called it) that keeps people dependent on govt. as they would be on crack cocaine. It gives them an easy way out and I've found in my life that when you have an easy way out, human nature is geared towards taking the easy path. The entitlement morass has destroyed the inner cities by giving women a means to replace the husband as the breadwinner with a govt. check, thus destroying the black family. It's irrefutable that when the Great Society began, the black family was still a stable unit, but now, most black children are born to unwed mothers! If that isn't cause/effect, I don't know what is. But I know, you liberals will present some "evidence" that it is the fault of rich people and that they are taking up too much of the "wealth" which to you people is a static concept, which it is not. You will bleat and whine about what a greedy sonuvabitch I am. But the end, the BBS now is divided into two distinct groups: 1. Those who admire success and wish to be a part of it. 2. Those who envy and seek to destroy those who achieve success.
If the law says . .. . . For speeding you must pay 1% of your annual Gross Income and it came out to that. . . I doubt it hurt him much I also don't think he will speed as much the question of a speeding ticket is this IS IT TO PUNISH or IS IT TO PREVENT FURTHER SPEEDING 50$ to a millionaire does neither Rocket River Don't look at the sums of money . . but the intent of the law. . . . the punishment fits the crime if it PUNISHES or PREVENTS further crime. . . . within reason
Equal and Fair Let's look at this for a second Should the punishment affect both parties EQUALLY or Should the punishment be equal for both parties i.e. 500$ to a guy making 10000 a year affects him far more than a guy making 2 000 000 a year. BUT you try to affect them EQUALLY . . i.e. the both have to pay 1% of their annual salary . . . . 100$ is as much an impact to Mr 10000 as 20 000 is to Mr 2 000 0000 Just Curious It is about result of the punishment vs the STANDARD punishment Rocket River
This is the entire extent of your problem as I see it. I agree that there are plenty of people who admire success and wish to be a part of it, but those who want to see that America remains the "land of opportunity" are not envious and do not want to "destroy those who achieve success." I would like an America where every person who wants to has the opportunity to seek education (one of the big things YOU tout as a way to get out of poverty). You are arguing for a system that would take the less affluent out of higher education altogether. Tuition and fees are rising FAR faster than inflation and the more money we take out of education to support the dividends to the rich, the fewer people we will see actually have the means to reach for the success you say they should strive for. I would like to see an America where people are actually rewarded for their hard work and dedication rather than only the hard work and dedication of their ancestors. Is it right for Paris Hilton to go through life never having paid taxes, as she will not if the inheritance tax is repealed? I agree with you fully on "welfare." There should not be a way for people to simply live out their lives without ever working, no matter how poor they are or how many children they have. But surely we can create a system that allows people who have been laid off (a HUGE group in this country right now) to go back to school and retrain for a better job. BTW, you are a "poverty bigot" and will continue to be as long as you keep listening to bullsh!t like the crap that Boortz spewed. Do you remember the thread about the recent study that found that Americans are finding it between difficult and impossible to lift themselves above the financial level of their parents? You are seriously deluded if you think that there exists even half the opportunity that existed in the 1950s and 1960s. What has happened since then? That's right, we have cut taxes over and over again, but only for the richest folks out there. That means less money for education, less money for infrastructure, less money for Social Security, and less money health care, but at least Warren Buffett got a half a million dollars in tax cuts!
Originally posted by Chump As long as you view supporting, enhancing and maintaining a high standard of living in this country as "punishment" then what do you view as the purpose of a sucessful society? Why do we ban together and form a country? All this sucess we have as a country is only for the selfish interests of the individuals? There is no desire to promote a basic standard of living for our citizens? responsibility <> punishment. Also, I never advocated removing all securtity nets and support. Not even close. But I also don't support this 'rich folk are evil so screw'm' view so commonly espoused in this thread, both explicitly and implicitly. Many of these folk have worked hard for their success, or maybe their parents did, and they shouldn't lose their rights just because they are successful. It's their money, it's their possessions. Just like we cannot force our religion on others, we cannot force our view of a utopian society on others. Personally, I think it would be great if all billionaires contributed a few hundred million to buy homes for the poor, or help pay their utility bills when they lose a job, or buy their kids computers with internet access, food, etc. Reasonable taxes accomplish part of these objectives, but what folks advocate here is entirely one-sided. Essentially basing all forms of taxation, fines, expenses, etc. on one's income or net worth punishes people for their success. It undermines major axioms of what has made our economy so successful. Now I don't argue that the present taxation schema is optimal. But many viewpoints here seem very very one-sided. By raising people out of poverty, if they are there by their own fault or not, we raise the standard of living of every American. (pssst, they also have more mula to spend on American goods and services ( = more jobs) ) It's great if we can improve the economy and help the impoverished at the same time. Simple taking money from one and giving it to another does not necessarily improve the economy.
Originally posted by andymoon I would like an America where every person who wants to has the opportunity to seek education ... I agree with that. Higher education should be guaranteed, just like health care. I would like to see an America where people are actually rewarded for their hard work and dedication rather than only the hard work and dedication of their ancestors. ... I strongly DISAGREE. Why should the government have more right to a parent's estate than their children and grandchildren? When I'm working at 3 in the morning, it's because it will benefit my children. Or my grandchildren someday. My earnings are already being taxed by every possible governmental body. They have no right to steal from my family. Have you spoken to any seniors about this view? One of their great joys is to leave something for their children and grandchildren. To help them, even if it's a small amount. They've EARNED the right to do so. They worked, were taxed, and still were able to save. You just want to tell them it's not really their savings? I agree with you fully on "welfare." There should not be a way for people to simply live out their lives without ever working, no matter how poor they are or how many children they have. But surely we can create a system that allows people who have been laid off (a HUGE group in this country right now) to go back to school and retrain for a better job. Agreed. BTW, you are a "poverty bigot" and will continue to be as long as you keep listening to bullsh!t like the crap that Boortz spewed. And many here seem like 'prosperity bigots'.
Nobody is talking about the joy your average senior gets from giving away the family home, farm, or small business. The inheritance tax doesn't even kick in until the estate is over $3 million and as such, only involves the super-rich. I noticed that you chose not to answer my question about Paris Hilton. Why should she inherit billions and not have to pay taxes on any of it? That is what will happen if the Bush tax cuts are made permanent. For me, it is about the breaks that the rich get that the rest of us don't. Why shouldn't an inheritance of $10 million be taxed for all the benefits that were given to the person amassing the wealth? Why shouldn't the heirs (of huge estates) have to pay taxes on money that they receive? I hear the republicans decry "welfare queens" with stories of abuse and people living out their lives being supported by the government, but they never seem to notice when the corporations are given welfare (bama is the exception, he is one sided when it comes to government handouts) and rich people are given money and influence that the rest of us probably couldn't even imagine. In the 75 years or so since the "Great Society" policies were enacted, the rich have seen their effective tax rate cut over and over again while the middle and lower classes have not seen ANY effective reduction in their taxation rate. The rich, as a result of their access to and influence on politicians, have paid to shift the burden to the rest of us and I find that execreble. What was so bad in the 50s and 60s that required us to reduce the tax burden on the rich to less than half what it was?
But what you fail to realize that most of the taxes are paid by that top one percent that the Democrats constantly rail against. Most people don't pay income tax!!!! They either get all of it back or they get that awful Earned Income "Credit" that is simply some more of that income redistribution that I despise so much. See, that is where you and I differ. I see a land of boundless opportunity, not a land of layoffs and soup kitchens. How is it that a former, hard-charging Marine like myself can now cover sports and also have a radio show that is now syndicated to a few stations in N. GA and some others in Tennessee and N. Carolina and you say there is not opportunity? I say, look at me, I did it. I've accomplished everything I've wanted to do in this life and it is because I don't accept no for an answer. I didn't stop working, even when it meant I missed out on the pleasures of life. I worked two and later three jobs at Alabama so I could support my children and go to school full-time. Nothing worth having is easy. But if you do put in the work and make the correct decisions, you will be successful. Maybe I'm an idealist or maybe I still believe in Horatio Alger, but I still believe this is the land of opportunity for those willing to work.
And I agree with you on the EIC. But the fact remains that the top one percent have seen their effective taxes cut in half since the 60s while the rest of us have not seen any effective tax cut in that time. Why is that allowed t ohappen? Because the rich make the rules. And when you were building your career, that might have been true, but nowadays, everyone's bills have increased to the point that many find it necessary to work 2 and 3 jobs just to make ends meet. Never mind that attempting to pay for education has become seriously difficult, since tuition and fees have been spiraling skyward for the past 20 years. Get off your soap box for a minute or two and look at the situation the way it is, not the way it was when you climbed to your current perch. Again I would ask for your opinion on the study that showed that upward mobility in this country, with very few exceptions, is a thing of the past.
Cohen and bs no one here is saying wealthy people are evil so we must take their stuff away! muhahah! no one! no one here is saying that hard work shouldn't pay off or that the American Dream is dead no one! So stop arguing against yourselves
First, it's no longer $50. Just about any ticket is about $200. Some of the tightest folks I've known were self-made multi-millionaires (may speak to how ones gets there; they have a keen respect for money). Many would have been quite upset about the $200 fine. Why restrict this treatment to government taxes & fines? When one of these people buy a loaf of bread, maybe it should cost them $4000. I do understand your point though, Balancing fairness/equality, maybe the fine shouldn't be $200 for someone pulling in $200 million this year. But I also don't want to see another money-grab, new tax from the government. In keeping with your 'within reason' addendum, maybe it should be $500...maybe more; but not $200,000.
What others are saying: "The rich should bear SOME of the burden of the societies poor. Cohen and bs: "It my money, get your own!" One is extreme. Little do they know, that type of thinking will create unrest and anger within ANY economic system. Just take a look at the last 4000 years of history. This is not ment to suggest the erosion of capitalism. But rather a moderation within a democratic contuntry with a blend of some socical programs and progressive capitalist policies. Cohen and bs, practice that tight $grip$....heh heh...
I haven't been doing my two jobs for very long, so things have had little time to change. People need to live below their means! If you can't afford to pay your bills, get rid of some of them! You don't need high speed internet if you can't afford it. Simple logic. Education costs may be rising, but what does that have to do with the rich? I don't believe that survey, because facts and figures can be easily manipulated to achieve the results you want to achieve. And if I don't make more than my parents, what is the problem with that? My Dad made a bunch of money working at the oil refinery he worked at for over 30 years. If every child made more than their parents in every generation, we'd be a land of millionares. And that is not going to happen. So I don't buy it.
Hmm. So a $216,000 speeding ticket is an example of SOME of the burden? That's the middle-of-the-road? Why don't you try to quote me where I said 'It my money, get your own!' Putting words in people's mouth, which has now been done at least 3 times to me in this thread, is MOST OFFENSIVE. Not carefully reading the thread before you put words in someone's mouth is ...should be ... embarassing for you.
Brilliant. What an impressive intellect you possess totally ducking my point by playing the "holier than thou" card... then b****ing about people putting words into your mouth....but yet you continue to contend that liberals are prosperity bigots and want to suck away the wealth earned by hard workers even though not a single person has expressed any sentiments close to that.. its about compassion, empathy and support......it is not about being vendictive against the rich.....
bama -- you may not mean it...but your long post above comes off with seemingly a great deal of contempt for anyone who is poor. and, yes...there are people in this country who have a very hard time making ends meet. who are forced to make decisions between paying the rent and buying groceries. we can judge their past and say, "well you should have worked harder in school!" but that doesn't feed their kids...and that doesn't address the heart. people simply can't be broken down into gross generalizations. we can't say, "well there's more black women now who are the head of the household because they're all grubbing for a welfare check." many don't have much choice when their husbands/boyfriends abandon them. people will definitely feel the consequences of their actions...but let's not completely harden our hearts to those people...because if i got what i truly deserved, i'd be in a world of hurt.
