Socialism at work: $216,000 for Speeding

I find your lack of empathy disturbing.

It is rather obvious that you live in some bubble and have no understanding of how life is for millions of Americans.

I guess the word for that is ignorance.

They say ignorance is bliss, for you it must be, I hope reality shows up at your door someday and knocks the #hit outta you.

 

If you support your positon by attacking my position, and you attack my position by assuming that it is based on my failure to live up to your standards, do me the favor of reading below:

I got myself kicked out of school when I was 14, just about 15, so I could start working because my mom wasn't making enough money to pay for the rent on our 1-bedroom apartment that me, her, and my little brother lived in. I was making $2.50 an hour at one job, and $4.25 an hour at the other. I had to get myself kicked out of school because my mom would have been arrested under truancy laws otherwise. When she almost died (and, consequently, went into deep debt because there was no health insurance), I spent 2 months supporting my little brother by myself - working two jobs - before the courts caught up with the situation and the two of us were shipped off to live with my father. I never completed high school. After a few years in government "disciplinary" programs, I worked in ****ty jobs for years in order to save enough money to start college.

Now, I will graduate in May with a dual-major B.A. in History and English. I will graduate Summa c*m Laude in both majors, and will probably go to graduate school or will start working.

In conclusion, I'd just like to say, **** off, you self-deluded, greedy, moron.

 

.....and one more thing: Don't Finnish people pay for everything with reindeer antlers anyway?

 

Umm, no. (Reading comprehension counts as part of your grade...)

You are a bigot for asserting that poverty is a mental disease. Tell that to a malnourished seven year old. Tell that to a sixth grader who is reluctant to go to school because his or her family can't (or won't, I'm sure you'd argue) provide school supplies. Tell that to the children of an illiterate immigrant family whose parents are doing all they can to provide a better life for them.

Poverty can most certainly result from choosing crack or drink or whatever over work, or for simply choosing not to work. You are a bigot for not accepting that there are other causes.

You are also a fool for not realizing that there is an enormous and growing underclass in the US that saps an inordinate amount of resources, and that something must be done to reverse its growth. We should be trying to figure out how to bring people out of poverty rather than condemning and mocking those who suffer from it. Your Marie Antoinette bit makes everything worse. It makes you feel warmly smug, though, obviously. Rarely have I seen anyone more ready to pat himself on his back than you are.

This is talk radio logic at its best. Any monkey should be able to realize that bringing along those who lag behind should not be done at the expense of those who can and should excel beyond. No one in his or her right mind would argue so. I do not doubt that a misguided school system subjected you to this sort of injustice. How you can conclude from this sad anecdote that the poor have made their own bed, deserve no sympathy, etc., I do not know, other than your apparent bigotry.

More hysterical talk radio BS from BS. I certainly do not agree with the above, nor have I ever supported the above. It's further evidence of BS's black and white view of the world. Goes over big in Georgia, apparently.

 

this just in, #hit still stinks


in other news, some people don't make it past the big hurdles in life that bama or thadues did. Poor choices, being stupid or bad luck sometimes knocks people who aren't even playing on an even field to being with, down.

This whole, refusing to work, bull#hit I hear from the right just makes me want to vomit.

 

Riddle me this Batman.... (I'm not even talking to Batman I just always wanted to say this.) Why do we applaud and even expect that professional athletes do charity and community work frequently, just because of their good fortune? As examples to the rest of society? Hmmmm. Could it be that it's just the right thing to do?

I'm gonna go ahead and throw my marble in the bucket thats not the 'poverty is a mental disease' bucket.

 

Hmmm…. that penalty, tied to his ability to pay, is very much like punitive damages isn’t it? Deterrence is a cornerstone of the American justice and punishment system, and it’s often based on a person’s or a company’s ability to pay. Hot coffee from McDonalds anyone? How is this any different? I’m not sure how this can be tied to socialism in any way at all. It seems like a very American style punishment to me.

 

And you and I are coming from two (I assume) very different perspectives on this issue. We are both arguing for a position that, we believe, will ultimately benefit us, but with different scopes. I am arguing that a child born into poverty NOW will face odds that may, ultimately, prove insurmountable, and with each passing generation there are more poor people with fewer available opportunities for social mobility. I was born in the 70's. A child born in poverty during the 90's, no matter how intelligent or hard-working, will face obstacles even greater than the ones I faced and will probably not make it.

I believe that this degeneration of opportunity will ultimately be one of the greatest determinants in the United States rotting from the inside out. I am not arguing for MYSELF alone, I am arguing for what I believe will maintain the stability of the country I live in - though this is not entirely altruistic, of course, because I live here and would prefer to believe that my country is truly what it claims to be - a land of opportunity and freedom. Unfortunately, reality contradicts and trumps my desire to believe.

The conservative position, conversely, appears to me as a hideously nearsighted and, because of that, destructive perspective. The paranoid yelps of folks like bamaslammer about "liberals" coming to steal their money is rooted in a field-of-social-vision circumscribed by base greed and floating in the sewage of "hard work=success" rationalizations. And beyond that fact - it's a position that can only support itself by encouraging willful ignorance of social realities and by denigrating and dehumanizing the humans who suffer from those social realities. It's the "I got mine, so **** you" worldview (if you replace the "**** you" part with long-winded and confused economist reports from ivy-leaguers working for a conservative think tank, reports that ultimately can be translated into the language of the poverty-stricken as saying "**** you").

Seriously - what do you think is going to happen when there is a massive underclass in the United States, many who are remarkably intelligent but who have no real chance at social mobility through legal and accepted means? Does it bother you to think this underclass may be happening right now? Think they're just going to be satisfied bagging your groceries for you?

Maybe you do - but, personally, I'd rather not test the theory. If I've learned anything from studying history, it's that no empire lasts forever. If I learned anything else, it's that no comfortable citizen of an empire wants to know when it's going to end.

In a rather ironic parallel (though the irony may be lost, since I doubt bama has bothered reading this far), I learned to read when I was 3. I had brain surgery when I was a kid, and required IQ testing to gauge the extent of brain damage I was expected to have suffered during the surgery (yes, I know, easy target), but I scored in the genius range.

Yes, that's what I'm saying : I'm special.

Not everyone is. Is it fair to punish people for being unexceptional? If so, maybe Paris Hilton should be forced to give me all her money. Unless exceptional ****-sucking is the prospect under consideration.

Don't mistake me - I'm not making an egalitarian argument. I believe that great mythical beast can exist, you know, the ever-elusive (or ever-illusive?) "meritocracy." Nature is an aristocracy - some people are just faster, smarter, prettier, than others. But I believe everyone should have the opportunity to pursue happiness as far as their talents and ability can take them. Sound familiar? If they're to dumb or lazy to be successful, then too bad for them - but if they're never given a realistic opportunity (he said, watching college tuition rise at 16 times the rate of inflation) - can you continue to tell yourself that they're unsuccessful because they are truly dumb and lazy? Wouldn't you feel better knowing that they really had a practical chance? Oh wait, I forgot - you do know that, despite all evidence to the contrary, right?

Personally, I'd love to believe that this meritocracy actually existed -- I'd like to believe that my degrees will actually mean something. But, I get irritated when I see every middle-class kid who graduates with an MBA and a report card filled with mercy C's from softy professors. And it pains me to speak to a remarkably intelligent child wearing dirty clothes who can't see the same dark future for himself that I fear may be inevitable for him.

..and please see my earlier point concerning the differences between a child born in the 70's, and one born in the 90's. Despite my monumental arrogance( ), the simple passage of time is probably the most salient point in reference to this part of my argument.

Tell that to the man trying to raise a family and working 60 hours a week for minimum wage. He was born poor, but works his ass off. Think he's going to get ahead, or just barely tread water? If you don't know any people in this situation, try driving to the poor section of town and asking someone. That's probably not a good idea though, especially if you have a nice car - I certainly wouldn't do it. Suffice to say, this phenomena is probably far more common than you'd care to believe. We even got a new term for it in the last decade - the "working poor."

You won't hear from them. They don't own computers or chat on the BBS. They don't eat at the same restaurants as you. The cops might question them everytime they step foot in your neighborhood. The only time you'll see them on TV is when a tornado destroys their neighborhood.

Of course you haven't met one yet - and, even if you did meet a person "who is a hard worker, has made good decisions, and has not had some level of success" - after so many years of the conservative viewpoint trying to explain away their existence, do you think you'd even acknowledge their presence?

 

Neo-Capitalists will never understand that concept. Money IS their "spirituality."

 

Hey Cohen.

What about the concept of punitive damages? If we consider equal to be equal in terms of an equal level of deterrence, which is how I understand punitive damages to work, then the actual dollar figure needs to fluctuate to produce the same level of deterrence. Major corporations in the US, when they are successfully sued, are penalized an amount that’s going to hurt, typically a very large amount, so they will be deterred from doing whatever they did again. Likewise with this guy, a fine of a couple hundred dollars won’t mean anything to him. $200k, otoh, may well deter him from doing it again. These laws look to be based on very similar principles to me.

 

Ah, and I regret offending your delicate sensibilities.

But, all sarcasm aside (I'll grit my teeth) - I do apologize for arguing with a caricature of the conservative viewpoint that I mistakenly named "Cohen" instead of the actual person on this BBS named Cohen. It's an error we've all been guilty of (some more than others) at one time or another (for example; see bamaslammer's rants against imaginary "liberals.") If it's any consolation, I am fully aware (now that I've calmed a bit) that you probably do not hold dear the same principles, to the same degree, as the principles I am finding fault with in the above post.

Seriously though - tell the truth now - the reason you don't want to respond to my post is because it's too damn long, right? At any rate, we'll have to agree to disagree because I've already spent much more time in this thread than the original 5 minutes I had intended, and Finland somehow got lost in the process.

This bulletin board is addictive.

 

So taking responsibilty for their actions means to you, punishment of poverty? Starvation? Dying early because lack of healthcare? Living in crime ridden areas? Their children going to poor schools?

Please tell me your not this selfish.

 

Um...just out of curiousity because I might not be completely familiar with this whole "sarcasm" concept, and its apparent potential to generate offense - but does this qualify?

 

As long as you view supporting, enhancing and maintaining a high standard of living in this country as "punishment" then what do you view as the purpose of a sucessful society? Why do we ban together and form a country? All this sucess we have as a country is only for the selfish interests of the individuals? There is no desire to promote a basic standard of living for our citizens?

By raising people out of poverty, if they are there by their own fault or not, we raise the standard of living of every American. (pssst, they also have more mula to spend on American goods and services ( = more jobs) )