Social breakdown, a reality. Be ready...

This is an inmportant topic and its one that I have to admit I'm frankly conflicted on.

I can see both sides of the issues and from a purely political standpoint I believe the 2nd Ammendment is clear that Americans have the right to own firearms that said I don't see a conflict with regulating the the type, usage, and registration of them. From the practical standpoint I recognize that there will be situations like what we're seeing in NO where the police simply can't be counted on to protect you and their is a need for personal self defense. That said Grizzled point is very valid also that the more guns there are available inevitably the more guns will get into the hands of people who abuse them.

I think what it comes down to is that guns represent power in its most basic form. While you can kill and harm people in many other ways nothing gives you the ability to kill with greater ease than a gun. As the Spiderman cliche goes "with great power comes great responsibility," and I think the key question is really whether we can trust that most people will behave responsibly. This disaster is really puts that into focus because while its brought out the best in many people clearly it has brought out the worst in many. So while its easy to say well people who own guns will behave responsibly and not loot or shoot people with no good cause whats to say will happen when people get desperate? Whats to say given an SHTF situation where you're hungry, thirsty, house destroyed and frustrated over the slow pace of rescue that you don't take your gun to go and rob and loot or take your frustrations out.

Again I don't think any of us can say what we would do in that situation because its one thing to say during an SHTF situation I would be protecting my family but in an SHTF situation like this Hurricane instead of protecting your family you might be in the situation of trying to get your family something to eat or figuring out how you're going to support your family when everything is gone. At that point would you only use your gun in self defenst or to tie a flag to it to waive around in the hope of attracting a rescue helicopter or would you use it to drive out the guy in the store to get some food and maybe some more so your family has something to build off of?

I honestly can't say what I would do and I think before everyone starts staking out absolutists positions we should think carefully about the implications both ways.

 

Ahhh the old guns don't kill people, people kill people argument. LOL! what a crock of ****!

 

ROXRAN, I will offer you a deal - if non-black and exurbanites such as yourself cease ignoring and underfunding wholesale abandoned urban areas like NO, Atlanta, Detroit, etc, and actually move back and vote to fund basic services, you can carry your AK47, modified to full auto, to protect yourself from the ninjas who hunt you.

Otherwise, as you sit in your abode that (I am guessing, correct me if wrong) is not in the inner city of anywhere, where, I am also guessing that, if you can afford a computer, internet access, guns, homeowners insurance etc, you would have been able to afford to do the sensible thing and leave a disaster area rather than sit on your roof with a shotgun, you don't have much cause for complaint, or to parley it into your one-issue soapbox about your various shafts and rights to bare them.

Which is ironic because, people just wanting to protect their own and nobody else (not in my backyard!) is why collective services are not available when disasters happen and everybody loses. That's a basic fact of life

As for New York, (where you're not going to find any gunstores), we had a major blackout two years ago in the middle of the summer for a few days- it was uncomfortable, and getting food was a pain, and the toilets wouldn't flush, which was really gross, and I had to take 12 flights of stairs in the dark to get to my apartment -- but there was virtually no looting or rioting of any consequence (unlike in 1976) because the city more or less works the way its supposed to because I/we pay for it to do so (though it is still underfunded) we care about it, and I am glad to be able to live in a community like that.

 

I obviously have no chance at changing your mind, so I'm not going to argue. I hope for the sake of the country that there are not a lot of other people who feel, like you, that the primary "lesson" from this tragedy, is that you should get a Bushmaster, because that is the kind of attitude that gets people killed, and I'm not talking about by bullets alone.

 

When I read this, I honestly thought it was a joke. Seriously, was it? I really hope it was. I'm picturing a 6 year old girl with an AR15 rifle leaned up against the wall next to her dollhouse.

Then, I read things like:

and:

"semi-auto Bushmaster carbine with laser sights" ?!?!

Come on.. you sound like a character in a movie.. maybe you've been watching too many vigilante movies.. have you seen "Red Dawn"? I have a feeling you'd love it.

Honestly, I can understand the desire to protect yourself and your family. But the fact that you keep providing quotes like the ones above, and using the term "a SHTF situation" (which sounds like it's taken right out of an NRA pamphlet) really makes it seem like you are actually eager to use your "training".

I thought Ottomaton's post seemed spot-on, and i'm a little disappointed (but not surprised) that you haven't responded to it. Here it is again, in case you missed it:

The last sentence there pretty much sums it up for me.

 

I find myself with the same feeling ROXRAN, only Ottomotan put it far better than I.

We have had many 2nd Amendment discussions and disagreed/agreed on firearms issues. I am a liberal that is pro gun ownership; I own over 15 myself and have a Federal Firearm License.

That said, the NRA rhetoric can get thick, and any organization that elects Wayne LaPierre as their leader(who called the government Jack-booted Thugs and prompted Bush Sr. to tear up his NRA lifetime membership card as a result)and thinks Ted Nugent(don't do drugs, but sleep with 15 year old girls) is stand-up guy has some serious issues. There is a reason why most gun owners in this country won't join--yes you have millions of members, but millions more like myself are turned of by perceived fanaticism.

But I digress, my offer of range time fun when you swing by Houston again still stands--liberal to conservative!

 

Hmmm, happen to notice ROXRAN's listed interests in his public profile contain "shootin stuff." Maybe that explains something ...

Listen up mateo, F.D.Khan, flamingmoe, deepblue, etc., NRA is offering a once-in-a-lifetime discount for you first time members to enjoy this great opportunity of shooting a mofo of your choice for free of charge on all the legal costs that might incur, plus free spiritual counseling for life!

Wait, if you pay 2 years of the membership fee, you get to shoot 3 mofos of your choice. That's a 50% saving!

Why delay, call 1-800-JOIN-NRA now!

 

there is no need for this kind of sarcasm. i don't and never will own a gun but admit that it is a complicated issue. the violent thugs in NOLA were violent thugs before the disaster. they may even feel they have more control of their lives now than before. these are desperate times and until troops move in, with guns blazing, the situation will deteriorate.

 

I spent a good part of my day yesterday loading up U-haul's that associates were driving to New Orleans, and then attempted to volunteer at the astrodome. They didn't let me volunteer there, so I delivered bottled water, towels and canned food to the holiday inn on 59 and Kirby that was allowing people to stay in the lobby and in rooms.

Yes if I was in New Orleans and I was in my home during a looting I would like to have a gun and I would defend my family and my home. Yes I am worried that I live a few miles from fannin and the train in Mid-town in which people from New Orleans that weren't allowed in the Astrodome are sleeping on the streets.

Your comments are foolish and simply trying to get people upset in this time of need. Why don't you go to New Orleans and help or do something instead of preaching to me why I shouldn't be able to defend myself.

 

yeah, it probably does.

I don't want to be a jerk about it, but it seems like you're sort of the ROXRAN equivalent to the other side of the argument. Do you really want to be that way?

 

Thats got to be the funniest post of this ordeal. A few gang members stole guns and are shooting at anyone and Azadre thinks its a revolution.

 

Look at the overall social unrest though. High gas prices in the south east, high racial tensions and a feeling of abandonment by the federal government can lead to pretty bad things. That being said, I don't honestly believe the unrest will spread because we live in different times.

 

If it takes one anti-gun nut to counter a ROXRAN at the other extreme, then yes I am willing to do it.

 

To be frank, the initial content in my post only had the 1st paragraph:

But before I hit the submit button, my reaction to the responses to ROXRAN by a number of posters whom I considered rational and fair-minded somehow escalated to a point that I felt I needed to throw a few extra jibes at NRA.

After I went back to read all the posts by ROXRAN who advocates methodically stocking military style assault weapons at home during "peace time" and decidedly using them in case of his eagerly anticipated SHTF, it's clear to me ROXRAN is exploiting the fears of ordinary citizens (who had an earful of reports on all the looting and shooting going on in N.O.) and our instincts of self-defense to push his crazed NRA agenda.

Putting all the debates aside on the moral of justified killing, the merits of 2nd Amendment, etc., if we think we can arm oneself with military-grade weapons, why in the world our adversaries (including "looters") can't do the same, or even better? Do we really want to establish and live in a militia/cowboy society where firearms are the most common goods on the market and our life revolves around "shootin something" one way or another?

I am NOT saying ROXRAN is a bad person with evil intentions. However, IMO, his ideas and ideals, while legally protected, are dangerous to a modern society, and certainly not conduice to a civil society. I agree ottomaton has a point.

 

It depends on the situation.

If I had a lot of "valuable" stuff left in my house, I'd probably shoot to kill because I know they'd come back to clean up. They might bring even more people to help, and those people won't be as generous with life.

If my house was as wrecked as other homes, then I'd shoot in the air to chase them away and to avoid further retaliation.

Not knowing when order will be restored, I will do some crazy things to ensure the best chance of survival in the future. Thrust in that situation right now, I'd be thankful that I don't have a daughter.