I'm not sure what you're referring to? You quoted the part about a foreign army invading Tomball, TX? Are you referring to local insurgents, rebels, etc? The kind you find in lots of third-worldish countries? If so, then no I have not heard of any of those kinds of groups attacking cities in modern America. If you're referring to something else, can you clarify?
I tell you what, I have so much respect for several liberal brothers not because you agree with me, but because I feel this stance is clearly reasonable, and as stated not something up for debate... I appreciate the willingness to agree the the unpopular on a political side, and this stance only encourages me to see the other side to a better effect...Bush sucks! There I said it...
Coming out of lurk mode...I have to give a big amen to RoxRan's opening post and the one right above this one.
So when someone brakes into your house, you are just going to sit there wait and see what are their intentions? Let's see, maybe I should ask the looters/thugs if they only wanted my big screen tv. In that case, maybe I should just leave it alone, when my new born daughter is sleeping upstairs? Have you lost your mind?
Gosh, can't you read? Let me repeat, if the looters broke in your home, grabbed some of your belongings (not a human being for *****'s sake), and were on their way out to their pickup truck, at that friggin' time, do you shoot or not? If yes, shoot where? Do you have any concern that for revenge of loss of materialistic stuff you may potentially cause loss of human lives?
You've been answered 5 times by 4 or 5 posters. What answer are you looking for? "I'd let them break and enter, then leave.", "I'd aim for their ear or big toe.", "I'd quietly debate the loss of human life vs. a criminal in my home." Center mass. Period.
Sorry, I didn't know we have so many vigilantes -- oooops, make it God-fearing, faith-based vigilantes.
Roxran, while I agree with your position in principal, it seems that you plan your entire life around the moment when you will need to "be ready". In all your life have you actually had to "be ready". I sincerely ask this, because, in all honesty, and having already stated that I agree with your position, your single-mindedness actually creeps me out a bit, and when I listen to anybody who is so obsessed with a single issue I have to fight not to knee-jerk in the opposite direction. In other words, I'm on your side but when you become monomaniacal I have to fight the urge to reexamine the other side's position. It almost comes across as if you are eagerly awaiting the downfall of civilization so you'll get a chance to shoot some looters. I say this in all honesty because I am on your side on the firearms and self-reliance issues, and I don't want to engender the same initial response from others. Just to be clear, one more time, I agree with everything you've advocated. I also think given the second amendment, restrictions on the purchase of military-grade automatic weapons and "destructive devices" should have required a constitutional amendment. I just think you come across a bit strong and might not be furthering your own position by such strong singlemindedness.
Are you freakin' kidding me? I can't believe you think only "God-fearing, Jesus-loving, faith-based vigilantes" would err on the side of protecting their family. As for your scenario where the "guy is walking away with your TV and then do you decide to shoot?", its completely irrelevant. Any person that can defend their home would do so at all costs before the guy had a chance to steal the TV. It would never come to the point where you are deciding to shoot the guy in the back. You show the weapon at entry. And then they can decide if your TV is worth their life. I mean do you interview your looters and ask "Sir, do you plan on only taking my TV or pillaging my wife?" and I don't even own a freakin gun....I'm just saying put in a baseball bat scenario and I guarantee I will use it against anyone I think could be a danger. I'd rather end up in jail b/c I erred on the side of safety than see something happen to someone b/c I thought "maybe they only want a pop-tart*" *Walmart says pop-tarts sales always spike during hurricanes
wnes, if looters were trying to break into my home they wouldn't make it to my "belongings." I would have already used whatever needed force to get them out. That includes firearms. How on earth are you going to know what they intend to do? Are they going to knock on your door and say, "Uh, excuse me, folks, but I really need to loot some stuff from your home, without your permission, and I just wanted to let you know. OK?" I think not. If they came to my door, asked for food and water, or some clean clothes, I had them to spare, and they looked like they were as normal as anyone could be in the chaos going on now, then I would simply give it to them with a smile. If they are breaking into my home, and I'm there with my family, then they are not going to make it past the front door. I am not a supporter of the NRA, and I am certainly not enamored with firearms, but if the need arises I will do what is needed, including using deadly force. I'm quite capable of that, liberal Democrat that I am, and I can tell you that most of the liberal Democrats I know would do the same thing. They might have a lot of sleepless nights after, I know I would, but they would do what was needed to protect their family. Are you married, or live with a partner? Do you have kids? Let me tell you something... you can take a chance on yourself, I might consider it, in fact, but I take no chances with my family. My Dad killed several Japanese sailors during a scrap in WWII. He chased a burgler off who was breaking into the window above his bed with a pistol, a couple of years before he died. Dad was a liberal college professor and department chair. I would like to think I have at least half the balls that he had, bless him. Keep D&D Civil!!
I guess 1) you sleep with your TV, 2) looters ring your door before they come in to do their 'thing'. But hey, I don't have problem with baseball bat.
"But this is the real world, and this is how I roll biatch!" -ROXRAN Not sure why, but this quote stuck with me. It sounds like a bad line in a cop movie, maybe spoken by Samuel L. Jackson, or LL Cool J, just before firing the fatal shot to the criminal's head.
The point is, it wouldn't get to that "friggin' time", I am not going to sit around and do nothing while some looters break into my home. If the home owner has firearms, the time to use them is when someone is breaking into the house, not when the looter is on the way out. Your scenario isn't going to happen.
I'll aim to kill, I don't go to Church but I believe in Christ and that he is a man of forgiveness. I think in a chaos situation like that, we are forced into chaos. My family went through the chinese revolution though I learn most of it from school and books, (because for some reasons I've never heard that many conversations about it during Chinese dinner parties and get togethers, wonder why?) and the whole time I while was learning about it in the classes or books, I was thinking what if it's like America and every one have guns? Scary thought but if I was in this situation, I would like to know I have an Gun in my attic.
I’m not really involved in this part of the discussion but as a God-fearing, faith-based, born again Christian myself I feel compelled to jump in and point out that shooting the looter can’t be justified on any Christian grounds, of course. If you believe in the Bible you obviously can’t overlook one of the most well known and important passages of the Bible: Luke 6 Love for Enemies 27"But I tell you who hear me: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, 28bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. 29If someone strikes you on one cheek, turn to him the other also. If someone takes your cloak, do not stop him from taking your tunic. 30Give to everyone who asks you, and if anyone takes what belongs to you, do not demand it back. 31Do to others as you would have them do to you. And for some bonus material here are the next few passages in Luke 6 which are also very relevant: 32"If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' love those who love them. 33And if you do good to those who are good to you, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' do that. 34And if you lend to those from whom you expect repayment, what credit is that to you? Even 'sinners' lend to 'sinners,' expecting to be repaid in full. 35But love your enemies, do good to them, and lend to them without expecting to get anything back. Then your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High, because he is kind to the ungrateful and wicked. 36Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Judging Others 37"Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. 38Give, and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down, shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the measure you use, it will be measured to you." 39He also told them this parable: "Can a blind man lead a blind man? Will they not both fall into a pit? 40A student is not above his teacher, but everyone who is fully trained will be like his teacher. 41"Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye? 42How can you say to your brother, 'Brother, let me take the speck out of your eye,' when you yourself fail to see the plank in your own eye? You hypocrite, first take the plank out of your eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck from your brother's eye. A Tree and Its Fruit 43"No good tree bears bad fruit, nor does a bad tree bear good fruit. 44Each tree is recognized by its own fruit. People do not pick figs from thornbushes, or grapes from briers. 45The good man brings good things out of the good stored up in his heart, and the evil man brings evil things out of the evil stored up in his heart. For out of the overflow of his heart his mouth speaks. The Wise and Foolish Builders 46"Why do you call me, 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do what I say? 47I will show you what he is like who comes to me and hears my words and puts them into practice. 48He is like a man building a house, who dug down deep and laid the foundation on rock. When a flood came, the torrent struck that house but could not shake it, because it was well built. 49But the one who hears my words and does not put them into practice is like a man who built a house on the ground without a foundation. The moment the torrent struck that house, it collapsed and its destruction was complete."
Why wouldn't his scenario happen? Is the homeowner guarding all his possessions and all entryways at all times? After 3 days of this, you don't think a homeowner will need sleep? If they are sleeping, and looters get in, steal some stuff, and the homeowner wakes up as they are leaving, wnes' scenario has happened. People aren't just sitting 24/7 at their front door with a gun. If people don't want to answer the question, fine. But why keep answering a question that no one asked?
