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So the Astros 2017 title is tainted

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by rockets13champs, Nov 12, 2019.

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  1. bobrek

    bobrek Person, woman, man, camera, TV
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    Steve Finley faints
     
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  2. Nook

    Nook Member

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    80% is probably about right. Pitchers were using it a lot more than people care to admit.

    Some of the worst culprits aren’t discussed because they were well liked around the game... Luis Gonzalez being a prime example.
     
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  3. msn

    msn Member

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    Was about to mention his name in response to the Finley post. Sucks, too--like you say, seems to be a great guy.
     
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  4. J.R.

    J.R. Contributing Member

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    Daniel Hacklan & the Hackletic




    The COVID-19 pandemic and the Houston Astros sign-stealing scandal might appear unconnected; one a pandemic that has upended life around the globe, the other a cheating scandal that tainted the Astros’ stellar late-2010s run. The proverbial case of apples and oranges?

    Not according to lawyers for season ticket holders suing the Astros over the sign stealing, as last week they amended their complaint to include a new subclass of potentially thousands of fans that the team has not refunded for all of their 2020 payments.

    “The Astros refuse to refund season ticket payments for the entire 2020 season in the face of the Covid-19 coronavirus,” the amended complaint stated. “Adding insult to injury, Defendants continued to debit 2020 season ticket holders’ bank accounts and credit cards for season ticket payments with full knowledge that the full slate of Astros’ 2020 home games would not be played in front of fans at Minute Maid Park.”

    The representative of the subclass is Donald R. Rao, a resident of Harris County, Texas who bought four 2020 season tickets for $12,533, according to the complaint. The Astros have already agreed to refund or credit payments for April and May, so the new claims are for the post-May payments.

    “Yet, while Rome was burning, Defendants continued to debit Plaintiff Rao’s and 2020 Season Ticket Holder Subclass Members’ payment cards and bank accounts for season tickets, parking, promo packs, ticket printing services, and/or other goods and/or services purchased from the Astros,” according to the complaint. “Continuing to take money from Plaintiff Rao and 2020 Season Ticket Holder Subclass Members Defendants, in the wake of the pandemic and corresponding national economic crisis, is unlawful and frankly, downright immoral.

    “The Astros do not seem to understand that there is a pandemic going on and folks are hurting financially. More important, in their public statements, Defendants intentionally failed and refused to address issuing credits or refunds for the amounts paid for season tickets … (for) home games to be played in Minute Park after May 31, 2020 — even with full knowledge that the Astros will not play a full slate of home games in 2020 in front of fans at Minute Maid Park — if any. “

    The amended complaint is not the first instance of ticket holders suing over teams not refunding payments in the COVID crisis. A New York Mets fan and a New York Yankees fan filed last month a class-action lawsuit in California federal court against MLB and its 30 teams over the issue. Shortly after the lawsuit was filed, MLB instructed its 30 teams to formulate refund policies.

    All did, but only extended refunds and/or credits through the April and May payments. According to one ticket reseller, no team extended its refunds past May 31, and some, like the Mets and Yankees, only covered April. MLB has proposed a July restart, but the players thus far are balking over the compensation details. It’s also unclear if fans will be allowed back, and if so how many.

    The Astros fans first filed their lawsuits in Texas state court in February, shortly after MLB’s findings that the Astros illicitly stole signs in 2017 and 2018, winning a World Series championship along the way. Three separate lawsuits were later consolidated, and cover claims for the 2016-2020 seasons. In the earlier complaint, the 2020 season is included only because fans paid their money before the sign-stealing scandal came to light.

    In April when the Astros replied in court, their response centered on what legal experts had expected: courts have long ruled fans have no standing to sue over the outcome of games.

    “Baseball is a timeless sport,” the Astros’ April 23 reply read. “Nearly as timeless is the rule that sports fans have no standing to bring legal claims based on disappointment in the sports contests they view. That rule holds true regardless of whether the disappointment results from poor performance or a breach of the game rules.

    “Consequently, under Texas law, Plaintiffs’ legal rights begin and end with watching an Astros game from their assigned seats. It is undisputed that Plaintiffs were never deprived of this right. Although every sports fan might have subjective expectations for his team to play well and not violate any rule, the law is that this interest is not a justiciable one.”

    The Astros did not reply for comment on COVID-19-related refunds now being included in the class action. Lawyers for the fans either did not reply for comment or declined comment.

    The rest of the amended complaint hews to the previous one: the fans would not have bought their tickets if they knew their team was cheating.

    “While the Astros go to great lengths to discuss their master plan of success, never once do they mention that their victories were the result of coordinated cheating efforts,” the amended complaint read. “And the reason is obvious; if the Astros revealed their true sign stealing cheating scheme to their fans and Class Members, ticket sales — including season ticket sales — would drastically decline.”

    The Astros, in addition to citing the numerous cases where courts threw out fan lawsuits, the club also cite the Texas Civil Practice and Remedies Code, which is “designed to achieve quick dismissal of claims, such as these, when the claims lack merit and are based on communications in connection with a matter of public concern.”

    The Astros lay out an argument that the sign-stealing scandal falls under this act because the fans argue that statements the team made about how hard and fair the club played influenced ticket buying. The team is very public, so as a result, the act’s communications element comes into play, the reply argued.

    “Indeed, the core of Plaintiffs’ allegations is that the Astros improperly decoded and communicated pitch signs and ‘falsely represented that they were playing by the rules,’” the team argued. “Moreover, the alleged communications relate to professional baseball games played in public. As a result, the communications were ‘in connection with matter(s) of public concern.’”
     
  5. msn

    msn Member

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    Can we change thread title to "sign stealing scandal"??

    So sick and tired of seeing that BS statement every time there's a new sign stealing yarn from The Athletic.
     
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  6. rockets13champs

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    Nah cuz the title is not real lol
     
  7. msn

    msn Member

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  8. The Beard

    The Beard Contributing Member

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    LOOKS REAL TO ME!!!!!
     
  9. marks0223

    marks0223 Astros STILL 2017 Champions
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    You're not real - Rockets haven't been champs with #13
     
  10. rockets13champs

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    We will be soon.
     
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  11. Newlin

    Newlin Member

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    People still remember and talk about the black Sox scandal. That happened in 1919, and the Sox cheated to LOSE a championship. The Astros cheated to WIN a championship.

    Yes, 100 years from now the Astros will still be called cheaters, and they will still hear boos.

    I don’t think it’s fair, because I know other teams also cheated. But, the Astros will forever be that team that fans everywhere want to boo.
     
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  12. msn

    msn Member

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    People sometimes still talk about the Black Sox, but nobody's booed that team in decades.

    @Castor27, can we please change the thread title?
     
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  13. PhiSlammaJamma

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    You can look at it a number of ways. But the way I see it, we won't be forgotten. And that may be better than being lost to history. Whatever our journey is now, it's a story. We have a chance to redeem ourselves and that's a better story than if we just won it, should we do that. It could go any numbers of ways now. It's on the boys how it ends, but rest assured, we are now a story.
     
  14. htwnbandit

    htwnbandit Member

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    I don't think that many people remember or care about the Black Sox outside hardcore baseball fans. It's only being brought up because of the media slander and Dodger fanboys.
     
  15. dc rock

    dc rock Contributing Member

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  16. htwnbandit

    htwnbandit Member

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    I actually kinda liked LeBron. Now he's about to be public enemy #1 in Houston. ****ing try-hard, trying to appeal so hard to the LA market. Is he aware that two players from the Red Sox, which was fined twice for sign stealing illegally, are on the Dodgers? Bet that's getting left off the doc. Just another reason Jordan was ten times the player LeBron is. Anybody the Lakers play, I'm rooting for them to wreck the Lakers, especially if it's us.

    Luckily it's appearing on Quibi so nobody's really going to give a crap anyway.
     
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  17. awc713

    awc713 Member
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