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So the Astros 2017 title is tainted

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by rockets13champs, Nov 12, 2019.

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  1. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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  2. marks0223

    marks0223 2017 and 2022 World Series Champions
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    This narrative that the Astros weren't sincere with their apology is getting tired. They apologized, they owed it, they admitted what they did was wrong. Did they have to roll around on the ground crying and get on their knees begging for forgiveness? Correa stood up for Altuve and he told truths about how the sign stealing helped in some instances but didn't help in other instances. Data has shown the Astros really didn't benefit from it and that's not a shock to fans who watched the Astros play much better on the road in 2017 and wondered if the new batter's eye was causing issues at home.
     
  3. Jake Tower

    Jake Tower Member

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    I received my HATE US. t-shirt.

    I'm ready for the season.
     
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  4. Chilly_Pete

    Chilly_Pete Contributing Member

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    These morons won't be satisfied until they "Rains of Castamere" the Astros.
     
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  5. mikol13

    mikol13 Protector of the Realm
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    He knew. Wonder what it meant when he was banging on his own head? Or hell, maybe he forgot because he was banging on his own head.
     
    King1, BigM, lw17 and 1 other person like this.
  6. SemisolidSnake

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    The schlock that continues to pour from people. I'd say it's unreal, except it's so, so believably real. So disappointingly predictable, too. Once I understood everything about how politics, political media, and political sycophantism worked, nothing has ever surprised me since. And since this is the exact same thing, it doesn't surprise me. It's become as boring as it is pathetic.

    Instead of "Hate Us," I'd rather have a shirt that says "Yawn. Give it a rest. How can you be this stupid?"
     
  7. punkoholic

    punkoholic Member

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    Giles said if they ask me to I'll give the ring back or Fiers apparently said if they make the Astros give it up then I'll give it up. Are they just saying that because they know the MLB would never ask? Like if I was them and was truly ashamed of the ring, I wouldn't wait to be asked or wait to see what happens with others, I would just give it up immediately. So them them trying to sound noble seems like a bunch of b.s. I like what Keuchel said. Still feels proud about his ring.
     
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  8. SemisolidSnake

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    Of course it is. It's easy to say anything when you know you'll never actually get called on it. Just to be sort of silly about it, I wonder how many of us experts here would actually jump at the chance to be an Astros or Rockets coach if we got a call tomorrow based on our insightful criticisms on these boards.
     
  9. msn

    msn Member

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    Is the contract guaranteed and minimum six figures? -=[prepares to jump]=-
     
  10. SemisolidSnake

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    Yes on the Astros side provided you're okay with the scapegoat clause towards the end. Manfred wrote it himself. On the Rockets side, it's handwritten on a napkin guaranteeing you lifetime free food at all Landry's-affiliated restaurants. The napkin is non-transferrable and does not include tax and tip.
     
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  11. msn

    msn Member

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    100 large to invest after a season of being at all the games and practices? I'll get a "hate me" shirt and wear it with pride.

    Pass...
     
  12. SemisolidSnake

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    I'll contact my close personal friend Jim Crane and get right on it......Hmm, well, I know I had his number around...somewhere. I swear I did. Hopefully, they won't Spike Lee me if walk in through the employee entrance to sort this all out.
     
  13. rpr52121

    rpr52121 Sober Fan
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    [​IMG]
     
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  14. J.R.

    J.R. Member

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    TEMPE, Ariz. — Albert Pujols played his first big-league game on the second day of April in 2001. His debut predated the release of the iPhone by six years, the iPad by nine and the Apple Watch by 14. Pujols arrived in the majors during a curious age — teams utilized technology, but the proliferation had yet to overwhelm the sport. He could watch video of his at-bats; he also didn’t try to check the footage in the middle of the game. He will not complain about a return to that analog era.

    “If they want to take it away, then let’s go back to old school,” Pujols said at Angels camp this week. “I’m good with that.”

    The issue has been broached often in Arizona and Florida this spring. As part of the fallout from the Astros sign-stealing scandal, MLB commissioner Rob Manfred is considering implementing sweeping changes to prevent another cheating fiasco. He does not feel compelled to remove trash cans from every dugout. But he does want to do something about video feeds.

    Earlier this spring, Manfred’s office dispatched special assistant to the commissioner Joe Torre and senior vice president Chris Young to discuss the potential new rules with managers and chief baseball executives of 30 clubs, according to people familiar with the situation. The commissioner’s office has also maintained dialogue with the Major League Baseball Players Association in search of common ground.

    The extent of the changes has not yet been determined. Manfred said last month the sport must “drastically restrict in-game access, by playing personnel, to video.” The commissioner’s office also is considering barring non-uniformed personnel from the clubhouse during games, turning off broadcast feeds inside the clubhouse and restricting players and coaches from in-game access to the video replay room.

    MLBPA chief Tony Clark indicated earlier this week the union would not object to losing the replay room. His bigger concern was protecting the usage of technology that players rely upon during games which does not put an opposing catcher’s signs at risk. “They have all been universal in their desire to maintain a level of tech during the course of the game,” Clark told The Detroit News.

    “I think it would be a huge hit to players in their abilities on the field if all video is taken away,” Reds pitcher Trevor Bauer said. “I know I personally use it a lot. I know a lot of hitters that use it. I know a lot of pitchers that use it, for completely reasonable and fair and by-the-rules things. It would be tough to see that taken away.”

    Some of the potential changes would follow the paradigm set in recent years. MLB fined the Red Sox for using Apple Watches to steal signs in 2017. The commissioner’s office introduced new rules in 2019 which forced all live feeds into the bullpen or clubhouse to be shown on an eight-second delay in 2019, and also eliminated non-broadcast cameras in stadiums. Players have expressed their support for those changes.

    “As long as it’s delayed, I think it’s fine,” Royals outfielder Alex Gordon said. “It takes it all away, with that. Which it was [last year].” Gordon smiled and referenced one of several unproven, uniformly denied Astros conspiracy theories: “Maybe that’s why they wore the buzzers.”

    Added Brewers pitcher Brett Anderson, “I don’t have a problem with you going in the video room before the series and looking at the ****. If you can pick the signs up, that’s on me. But as soon as it gets into real time, that’s where **** changes. I think that’s players’ biggest gripe — you’re doing it in real time. You crossed the line.”

    Royals pitcher Danny Duffy suggested MLB could even forbid active players from exiting the dugout until the game ends.

    “I mean, how often do you see basketball players go up in their locker room during games?” Duffy said. “We don’t need to. We don’t have to. As long as there’s a bathroom there, we’re good.”

    In November, New York Post columnist Joel Sherman proposed an atmosphere of “Amish Baseball,” in which teams are barred from using any technology after each game’s first pitch. The concept has some fans in the commissioner’s office. But it would be met with resistance from players, who outlined to The Athletic how they have incorporated video and technology into their regular routines.

    In between innings, Dodgers shortstop Corey Seager often departs his dugout and parks himself in front of a video monitor. He opens a program called BATS, which MLB has authorized players to use during games, and watches footage of both his at-bats and his defensive positioning. He studies the mechanics of his swing. He compares his perception of the strike zone with that of the umpire. Introduced to the merits of video in Triple A, Seager considers the practice a vital part of his production. He called it “an overcorrection” if Manfred barred all in-game video.

    “You understand what he’s trying to do,” Seager said. “But it’s definitely not the right way.”

    Some veteran players described themselves as less dogmatic in their video usage than Seager. Gordon estimated he watched half of his at-bats. Giants outfielder Hunter Pence checks once a game. Angels catcher Jason Castro alternates between watching his own performance and analyzing his pitcher.

    Castro noted another benefit of access to video: It can maintain diplomacy with umpires. When the catcher and the umpire disagree on the location of a pitch, Castro explained, the umpire can settle the debate by asking the catcher to go check the replay between innings. “That’s a pretty common occurrence,” Castro said. “And that way you can quash any disagreements throughout the game.”

    The commissioner’s office is unlikely to crack down on low-risk technology, like the pre-programmed iPads that players consult during games. The devices exist on permanent airplane mode, unable to connect to WiFi or be updated during games. They contain scouting reports and video clips that players can study before returning the diamond. The iPads are expected to remain in use in 2020, according to people familiar with the situation.

    A knottier issue involves deciding how to police the in-game video system without banning it completely. One suggestion from members of the union would be editing the at-bat so the catcher’s signs are not visible. Those clips are often cut by each team’s own video department.

    “I’m hopeful that there’s some sort of technological resolution that can be had, [like] blurring the signs out,” Bauer said. “All the Trackman numbers are time-coded. So it seems like you could write a code that, as soon as the pitch is triggered, you subtract a second or whatever time that you figure out to get rid of the signaling of the signs. Perhaps it’s a computer-vision algorithm that automatically identifies and blurs the catcher’s signs.”

    “There’s no reason to have that information on the video. There has to be a creative way to allow for in-game video to be used for the correct reasons.”

    The level of concern is not universal among players. Reds first baseman Joey Votto pronounced himself indifferent to any looming changes.

    “I don’t care,” Votto said. “I just want the games to be faster. Most restaurants close around 9 p.m. or 10 p.m. It’s hard to get a reservation and make it if you’re playing a three-and-a-half-hour game.”

    Asked if cutting down on in-game video might aid that endeavor, Votto shrugged.

    “Oh, I have no idea. I guess you didn’t ask about that. You were asking about a policy change. And the only thing I care about is that the games start getting faster. Do anything they want. I don’t care. They can make it a seven-inning game.”

    For now, the details about the new rules remain undecided. The commissioner’s office intends to make an announcement before Opening Day.

    Until the decisions are official, Pujols has taken a zen approach. A return to the ways of a bygone era might not be so bad, he reasoned.

    “I think a lot of guys would like that,” Pujols said. “And I think at the end, you’ll find that it’s more relaxing. You don’t have to think so much. You can trust your skill.”
     
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  15. RayRay10

    RayRay10 Houstonian

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    Only baseball would even consider getting rid of all technology. Come on guys, how about going away from the outdated signaling system that's in baseball now and allowing electronic listening devices like they have in football. The answer is right there.
     
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  16. msn

    msn Member

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    Seriously. How can they be that stupid and still breathe?
     
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  17. donkeypunch

    donkeypunch Contributing Member

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    "No! Cause that'll take away from the purity of the sport!"
     
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  18. zeeshan2

    zeeshan2 Member

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    David Schoenfield corrects the record: What rewatching two key Astros 2017 World Series games tells us https://t.co/CGMip3GUmD

    — Buster Olney (@Buster_ESPN) March 4, 2020

     
  19. RKREBORN

    RKREBORN Member

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    So are the Red Sox just going to get away with it?
     
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  20. msn

    msn Member

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