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So Sad

Discussion in 'Houston Astros' started by BobFinn*, May 7, 2005.

  1. RocketMan Tex

    RocketMan Tex Member

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    What he really needed to do in the early 1990s was redesign his swing! He would still have a right shoulder if he did.

    And don't expect to see Bagwell get traded. With his contract and physical status, there aren't any teams willing to offer enough to make the trade worthwhile.

    Bags will be a situational pinch hitter for the rest of the season, and then retire.
     
  2. NJRocket

    NJRocket Member

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    I dont expect to see him get traded either...but not because we cant get someone to make us a worthwhile offer....i see it more because he is useless to pretty much any NL team...and his salary makes him near impossible for 80-90% of anyone in the AL. (or NL for that matter). I think if we could get ANY type of prospect for him at this point, it would be a good deal for us.
     
  3. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    You know it is not like Baggy has never had an April slump before.
     
  4. xiki

    xiki Member

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    Alas, I do not perceive this to be a slump. If it were then there would be hope.
     
  5. No Worries

    No Worries Member

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    So if Baggy were hitting closer to .300 than .250, you would be willing to not ride him into retirement?
     
  6. Another Brother

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    Bagwell's shoulder +

    :(
     
  7. Furious Jam

    Furious Jam Member
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    FACT #1
    The guy is in tremendous pain. Even the shots don't seem to help that much anymore.

    FACT #2
    That pain in not going away and will only improve slightly with rest.

    FACT #3
    The pain, combined with age, has made Bagwell a shadow of himself both at the plate and in the field.

    If you think that Bagwell is going to significantly improve his performance this season, then you are ignoring these facts.

    And if Bagwell doesn't significantly improve his performance this season, then he's not helping this team. (You might argue that his leadership provides the team with intangible help, but it doesn't seem to be helping them in the standings right now.)

    Thus, Bagwell is getting paid as if he's helping the team, but in reality, he's not helping them at all. The honorable thing to do would be to retire instead of taking tons of money for doing virtually nothing, but Bagwell is not doing this. By not doing the honorable thing, I'm not suggesting that Bagwell is a bad person. Instead, I believe that he's deluded himself into thinking he can come back from this and earn his keep. That's just a guess on my part, but it would be fairly typical of athletes winding down their careers. But my guess is at least supported by facts and history, whereas you attribute noble motives to Bagwell without any basis. When you say he is "working his ass off" to come back, where's your support for that? I've read that his shoulder prevents him from taking batting practice or lifting weights. You say that his number "are not bad", but you fail to illustrate just how he compares with the average MLB 1st baseman. The truth is that neither of us knows what drives Jeff Bagwell, but I can make an educated guess, whereas all you bring to this discussion is wishful thinking.
     
  8. robbie380

    robbie380 ლ(▀̿Ĺ̯▀̿ ̿ლ)
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    ok so basically by your estimation hakeem wasn't honorable late in his career either? it's basically the same thing right?
     
  9. Furious Jam

    Furious Jam Member
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    If you're talking about his cash grab in Toronto, yes. But I'm not as hard on either guy as you imply. But I definitely think Hakeem was deluded and I put Bagwell in the same class, with a dishonorable result arising from that delusion. Hey, we're all human and we all go through denial at some point - there's no shame in it. But what I don't understand is people on this board getting caught up in someone else's delusion. Hey, Jeff and Hakeem are great icons in this city who have done wonderful things, but that doesn't make them beyond reproach. I just wish people would step back and be more objective. We're just talking about pro athletes here - it's not like I'm taking shots at family or something.
     
  10. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    I think Hakeem had some game left, but not game worthy of starters minutes. Hakeem wasn't willing to take a backup role, like Deke or even Elvin Hayes and Moses Malone late in their careers.

    Bagwell is done. If the Astros were winning inspite of his bad shoulder then no one would care. The Astros clearly stink and Bagwell is not helping. The rebuiling process will begin in earnest if the season keeps going downhill. 1-14 on the road. PU! Look for an official towel throwing in party on June 1st if they still have one road when by then.

    I'd approach Bagwell, Biggio and Clemens if they want to see if a trade can be worked out to a contender of their choice. If they want to stay fine, no hard feelings though if they want to leave. Bagwell though if a trade can't be worked out should either retire or go to the injured list for the remainder of the season. I'd pay him through this year out of respect but I don't think he should clog a roster spot for someone who needs experience for next year. If Bagwell is on the roster of any team next year then he is in super denial.
     
  11. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Why don't they just sign this guy? He's got some power it looks like.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    Dang! Looks like John Kruk finally ditched the 12-pack a day work out program and hit the steroids like the rest of major league baseball. His comeback to the Phillies must be real close.
     
  13. Surfguy

    Surfguy Member

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    I've never seen anyone with that much muscle. I'm in shock! That dude is huge! Just looking at those biceps and triceps...I didn't know they could get that big. Please tell me that is some photoshop magic.
     
  14. SamFisher

    SamFisher Member

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    Nope, it's real, supposedly he injects himself with all sorts of crazy stuff

    http://www.greggvalentino.net/index.cfm?pageID=16/
     
  15. Phillyrocket

    Phillyrocket Member

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    That's great he can bench press a bus but what chick is going to get within 20 feet of that guy?:D
     
  16. desihooper

    desihooper Member
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    I for one hope that I can still go to the ballpark (be it MMP or Ameriquest Field) at least one more time wearing my Bagwell Jersey and give him a hand for being this 25 year old's favorite player for nearly 15 years. I hope and pray that he can regain some strength in his shoulder, perhaps he should try some Ayurvedic medicine to see if it can't loosen his shoulder a little bit. I'm sure he's tried the usual cortizone and painkillers. Why not give some Eastern Medicine a chance? I think when he retires, Houston fans will miss seeing the day-in day-out professionalism he brought to the park each and every night. Get well soon Baggy!! If this is the end of the road for you as a professional baseball player, thanks for all the wonderful memories, and here's hoping they're only surpassed by the ones you and your family make over the next 40 years.
     
  17. Robert Snyder

    Robert Snyder Member

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    You know..... when Bagwell is sitting in the bullpen (like he was last night) just chillin, and helping to throw buckets of water at women in skimpy bikinies (riding along with the Marlins mascot) I think that shows that "you're done".

    Put Bagwell on the DL and let Biggio play everyday to pad his stats.

    The sad thing is that this could be a Nolan Ryan-type situation where one day the guy's playing and then before you know it they're done. Ryan's last game was in Seattle, he was pulled early, walked off the field and that was his final game.
     
  18. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    hehehe


    It's getting really bad



    Bagwell reaches limit of pain
    By RICHARD JUSTICE
    Copyright 2005 Houston Chronicle

    RESOURCES
    LISTEN: Rockets 'cracked' in Game 7

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Q&A: Got sports questions? Send them to Chronicle columnist Richard Justice here
    • The Q&A so far.
    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    THE JUSTICE & MCCLAIN SHOW:
    • Bagwell's shoulder a pesky constant
    • Astros youngsters showing some promise
    • Clemens unlikely to seek trade
    Requires the free RealPlayer or Flash. Latest Richard Justice columns:
    • Justice: Ignore rout; Rockets have a foundation
    • Justice: 40-point stunner ends dream
    • Justice: For McGrady, stage comes no bigger
    • Justice: Series sends a message to league, fans

    MIAMI — He has gotten through games the last three years with pain-killing medication, cortisone injections, massages and adrenaline.

    Jeff Bagwell has been under no illusion any of it would make him significantly better. His goal was to delay the inevitable.

    Last week, it arrived.

    He woke up Wednesday with a searing pain in his right shoulder. He had learned to live with a gnawing discomfort, but this was far worse, far more debilitating.

    He's not sure if he suffered an additional injury or if the pain was a product of a degenerative arthritic condition that will eventually end his career. Doctors have recommended a shoulder replacement once he's done with baseball.

    "I couldn't hit, I couldn't throw," he said. "If I played, I'd just be hurting the team."

    That afternoon, he walked into Phil Garner's office and removed himself from the lineup. In 15 seasons, he'd done that one other time. That was in 1994 when a flu bug left him on the training table.

    Since then, he'd played with strains, sprains, bumps and bruises. He wanted to play every day because he believed he could still contribute in some way.

    This time, he's forced to confront the possibility that this is the beginning of the end.


    He missed his sixth straight game Monday night. The real questions go deeper: How much does he have left? How good will he be when he returns?

    His arthritic right shoulder is dying a day at a time. He hasn't been able to throw for three years. Now he's having trouble swinging a bat. There's no indication it's going to get significantly better.

    "I have no strength left in my shoulder," he said. "My shoulder has gotten weaker year after year after year. I just can't get the bat head to the ball like I could. The pain is always there."

    He's prepared to deal with whatever is ahead, even if he can no longer play.

    "I'm OK with that," he said. "It won't be the end of the world. I've got two beautiful kids. I've got a great family. I'll miss the guys. I'm sure I'll miss the game. But I'll have no regrets."


    Looking for a remedy
    He's searching for treatment even as he hopes rest will ease the inflammation and allow him to get back on the field.

    It's hard to imagine everything that's swirling through his mind at a time like this. Part of the legacy he and Craig Biggio will leave the Astros — besides winning, professionalism and setting a standard for every other teammate — is a one-day-at-a-time work ethic.

    They prided themselves on being grinders and on showing up for work and playing even when they didn't feel their best. For Bagwell to show up in the clubhouse and be forced to watch others play is an indication of how much pain he's in.

    "I'm dying not being out here with these guys," he said. "The way we're struggling, I want to be playing. I might not even help, but I want to be there."

    Writing Bagwell's professional obituary is risky business. He felt terrible much of last season, too, and still hit 27 home runs in helping the Astros get within a game of the World Series.

    Yet he's forced to play with relentless pain. He may no longer have the power to hit home runs the way he once did. Worst of all, much of the pleasure he once got from the game has been overshadowed by the pain.

    "It's a tough question to answer," he said. "When you write something, people aren't going to understand. They're going to say, 'You're playing baseball for a living. How can that be bad?' There are times when playing is a lot of fun. But it has definitely become a job."

    He recently told general manager Tim Purpura he wouldn't embarrass himself or the organization. That they even had that conversation tells you there are doubts.

    He has around $24 million remaining on his contract after this season. He says he intends to keep playing as long as he can contribute.


    It never lets up
    Only his closest friends really know how much pain he has endured. Only they know how tough it was for him to take himself out of the lineup.

    "I think most people on this planet that had the same shoulder injury would have trouble surfing the Web," Brad Ausmus said. "He's got a shoulder injury that has gotten worse on a daily basis for three years. Imagine a drop of water hitting you in the forehead every day. The only difference is this isn't a drop of water. This is a shoulder injury that affects everything he does. The hardest part is going out there every single day and knowing there's going to be pain."

    Bagwell, 36, has 449 home runs and should have his ticket punched to the Hall of Fame. He says he's not playing for numbers or a legacy. He's playing because he likes it and it's what he has always done.

    More than ever before, that desire is being tested.

    "I go through that every day," he said. "A ton of things go through your mind. I remember sitting on the training table getting a shot one day and thinking, 'What am I doing? Is this worth it?' Then you play, and things work out, and you realize it's worth it. You have a season like we had last year, yeah, that makes it worth it.

    "I'm still here because I think I can still contribute. I could sit on the disabled list just like other players have done. I could have spent the last three years on the DL and collected my money. That's not me. I feel like I can still offer something."
     
  19. Saint Louis

    Saint Louis Member

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    I'm sure he still wants to play, I am sure he still wants to collect a paycheck, I am sure he would like to reach 500 homeruns (a first for a career Astro), but Jeff should have his shoulder replacement surgery and live life without the pain. Here's to you Jeff, your number is ready to join Cruz, Ryan, Scott, Niekro, Wilson and Umbright at the top of MMP.
     
  20. Fatty FatBastard

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    Damn, don't see you often around here anymore. Keep up the work in Lubbock.

    I don't see Baggy being done... yet. He'll need two-three weeks off, and then gut it through the rest of the season. This year will be his last, however. But we all knew that.

    Have faith guys, the season is still early.
     

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