daaaaayum, bow down. Interesting post man. More good points. For those that think Kobe and Shaq had to co-exist, you want to look at each players value? Kobe without Shaq: Lakers have not made it out of the first round. Shaq without Kobe, Heat are considered title contenders (at least ECF) every year. And yeah, what is this determination and killer instinct? Tracy goes at his opponents without forgetting he's playing with 4 other players on the court. He just plays smarter. He knows when he's hot, and kills teams with his PLAY, not JUST shots. Again, I can't say one is better than the other hands down, I'm just saying it's not as clear cut as so many seem to think.
Well what do you expect? This thread was started this year, not last year. Of course nobody discussed who was a better player as of 2006. We were busy talking about 2005.
Nothing but the same brainless what have you done for me lately generation looking for instant gratification in the here now while ignoring the overall facts. Show me how Kobe has seperated himself from the top of the pack and I'll show you how he didnt. I like his game, the guy is freaking awesome, but also one of the most overhyped players of this time. People scream when he makes a layup as if noone else has ever done it. Its very funny, and if you dont believe me, watch another game when the lakers are on national tv. So funny these kids. Nice try, but NO. He had a better season than Tmac this year because of the obvious, but not that impressive considering what he has done has been done before. Getting to the 1st rd and bounced out.
and then ppl will say that Houston's championships aren't valid b/c they never had to go through the Kobe/Shaq Lakers. but that's okay. Houston will never get the respect.
What? I thought it was because we didn't play Michael Jordan. 'Cuz we also never had to play the Showtime Lakers, Larrry Bird's Celtics, or the '61-'62 Bucks. Do people really say that about Kobe/Shaq?
Sorry Old-timer, I didn't know I was in the company of eminence grise. I would think that a thread titled "So Kobe still > Tmac" would encompass the present day, due to the grammatical significance of the word "still". I guess I was wrong. I for one thought Kobe's season was pretty impressive. Sure, 37 ppg has been done before, 81 points has done before - by Wilt Chamberlain. I guess it's not that impressive to you, but it's impressive to me.
Well apparently only points from a massive amount of shots are impressive to you. To a degree, it is, I give him his props, but I have a hard time believing any other top star that shoots as many shots as he did with no defense on them couldnt accomplish it as well, if they had the same look at me goals as Kobe does. I dont think that makes a player better overall one iota. If that were the case, he would be MVP, but not so.
mvp is an opinion, he would be mvp if people voted for him. and for the sake of argument, t-mac had just as much shot if not more at mvp last year and the "opinion" of voters was that he wasn't so in a discussion of who's better that is a moot point.
screw that.. .he aint the better player.. wtf ?? .. Kobe might be a great talent, but he aint a better player than T-mac, he is not even a top 5 player.. the best player is the one who makes his team win and play "TEAM" Basketball.. not the one who plays selfishly.. Kobe and MJ are just ball-hogs and they mess up the right picture of basketball.. basketball is a team sport, Ping-Pong is an induvidual sport.. if u want to play by yourself and take all the shots, switch to pingpong.. ... Basketball is not for ballhogs...
"I think McGrady is the most talented, skilled player in the NBA today. I think he's better than Kobe and I think he's better than Garnett. What he does with the basketball, with his size, I think he's incredible. Now, what I love about McGrady is that I knew he could be a good defensive player, but I didn't think he wanted to be a good defensive player. What he is doing to Nowitzki on the defensive end is as impressive as what he's doing offensively." -- Denver Nuggets coach George Karl Granted, this quote is from last season's playoffs, but like others have pointed out in abundance, T-Mac has been injured this year. Does that make him less of a player? I don't think so-- I think it makes him an injured player who, when healthy, is a better player (all around) than Kobe. If I were playing a pick-up game at the gym, and Kobe and T-Mac were there... I'd be picking #1.
Its amazing how quickly people forget how good a player is after a crappy year full of injuries. What everyone is saying about T-Mac reminds me of how everyone forgot about Penny Hardaway back in 97. Kobe is very good, however, there are glaring flaws in his game... the turnovers, the sloppiness, etc. Kobe makes up for these by being so determined and coming back at you the next possession. However, T-Mac was/ is more of a natural basketball player than Kobe. Just watching him play, you can tell he is doing the right thing/ most effective play say 90% of the time, while Kobe only does it say... 70%. T-Mac didn't have half of his athleticism this year and was still able to put together some impressive 40+ point games. If Kobe were robbed of his athleticism would he be able to even score 30?
I know this might seem a lil extreme, but I am probably the biggest Kobe hater u will ever see in ur life.. I just hate this guy. I hate his moves, I hate his shot, I hate his style, I hate his problems, I hate his attitude.... the dude is just not right, he has major problems... first of all, he kicked out Phil (oh, I hate Jackson more than Kobe) , then he kicked out Shaq from the team, then Payton, then Malone, then HOrry, then Fisher, then ...and most recently, Atkins..... he talked **** about Karl Malone's wife, he called him a **... he messed up with everybody.. he tried to have his own team and win by himself, but he couldn't, cant , and wont prove that he can win by himself... he is the biggest ball-hog I've ever seen.. 81 points ??? I know he had an awesome %, but 81 ??? 81 ?? wtf ??? what a ball hog... and dont say that his team aint good, I actually think that the Lakers team can be a top 3 teams in the West if they didn't have Kobe or if Kobe played a little unselfish.. they have a good team, I discovered that in the playoffs.. I mean, I know they r week at the 5, but still.. they have good PG in Smush and a good backup in Viujic, they have Kobe at 2 and Devin George can play there sometimes, they have Devin, Cook, and others in the 3, Kwame and Mihm in the front court... the team is good and its bench is deep.. but they have a cancer called Kobe and they wont get rid of him until he retires... KOBE SUX... he might be a better talent than T-mac and than everybody in the League, but he is not using it the right way.. and like Red_Glare said, If I had to chose between the two, even with a "broke back" T-mac, I would not even hesitate in picking #1... so for all of u T-mac haters, I have just 1 thing to say: just wait until T-mac brings home the championships, and I will make sure I keep a list of your names so u wont be able to jump on the band wagon..
The thing I appreciate about Kobe that I do'nt see in TMAC is his fire..he seems to have much more fire and competitiveness than TMAC..Tmac seemsl like he is OK with losing...Maybe its because of his years in Tor and ORL...Kobe has always been on winnig teams....
How much fire did Kobe have when he scored 1 point from a tecnical foul in the 4th quarter of game 7 against the Suns?
What I don't understand is why some people even think about using T-Mac's injury(or any other player) to prop up Kobe, making it sounds like he's so much better then he really is. C'mon now, of course Kobe will be better then an injured T-Mac or any other injured star in the league. I'm not sure if this is just a sgin of frustration from casual Rocket's fan or just someone that loves to ride on Kobe's nuts, but its just so unfair. Why won't you take Kobe's best season and compare them to T-Mac's best season and then you will be able to form an opinion that is fair all across the board.
I guess when a sleepy-eyed star yells, pumps his fists, flexing his muscles, brushing his chin after big plays, dunks, shots...it's just not showing fire. Was it really that long ago that people forgot?? I won't ever forget. Even the spurs game and the miracle comeback...that was regualr season, early in the season, we had a losing record then, and in some people's world, had no reason to show any passion and fire...but guess what? He did...and if I remember correctly he had a couple games in the same time period where he hit game winners and was yelling and gettin pumped up. no fire? I don't get it
absolutely, when I started this thread it wasn't about 2005/2006 kobe vs. tmac. that's just a stupid comparision. My comparision is actually regarding the fact T-Mac has always had that, "could never carry his team out of the 1st round" bug that Garnett has, and maybe Kobe will start having it too. ever since he ran shaq out of town, there hasn't been much noise coming from over there in LA, except from the clips. During the Lakers/Suns series when the Lakeshow was up 3-1 i did think, well i guess Kobe is better, he's carrying his team through the first round without someone like shaq with him...but then...he lost...3-4. at least t-mac and the rockets never dropped 3 straight to lose the series. losing after being up 2-0 was bad, but being up 3-1 and not closing them out...oh man.
Career playoff production goes to TMac. Funny thing is that Tmac being the younger of the two carried a decent orlando team and took the champions to be pistons to the brink of elimination. If Tmac and Kobe are both in the playoffs next year, this discussion will be pretty one sided: TMAC Over Kobe!
