So do you delusional steven curry bandwagoners still think he's mvp

Curry has evolved into a good defender. There are plenty of articles analyzing his defense, and that's the consensus.

Also, which pg's have a post game?

 

Good analysis. I am not arguing that Curry is bad at defense, just that he's not 'great' at it.

This is an important distinction (or, at least, should be) in any MVP discussion.

 

So, that's why Barkley has more MVP, MVP Share, All-NBA first team selection, and higher Hall of Fame Probability? (Barkely 0.9998 vs Rodman 0.7532) The latest all time PF ranking from ESPN has Barkley at #4 and Rodman at #10.

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/nbarankPFs/ranking-greatest-power-forwards-nba-history

Get outta here, Rodman was a role player, very good one at that, but still a role player. Barkley led his team to the Finals while being THE MAN. Just counting the number of rings without considering the context is supremely idiotic, by that measure Robert Horry was a better player than Karl Malone.

 

I don't think they do this to 'hide' him so much as they do it because they CAN due to having an elite defender in Klay Thompson next to him. Why waste Klay's defense on Roberson?

 

aka smart basketball

 

Also, moving your best offensive player to a less taxing defensive responsibility is pretty standard, regardless of the player's defensive ability. In the second Bulls threepeat, the Bulls routinely had Ron Harper guard the most dangerous opposing guard, because Harper was a good defensive player (as Klay Thompson is) and because it avoided tiring Jordan out on the offensive end.

 

says kawhi and jimmy butler

 

I remember being amazed by his man-defense out of nowhere that really changed the game. He can lock you up as well on bigger guys. To the doubters, just watch the game, you'd be surprised as I was too.

GS simply have a bunch of taller options to guard taller guards, so you don't see Curry on them that much.

 

YW.

[youtube]gsKCyNvnt7k[/youtube]

 

lol, you should check out the like/dislike ratio of that video which is unusually bad for that channel, especially for a video that deals with Curry. Also, people's reaction on the comment section is all you need to know as to what the general public thinks about that BS title.

Coach Nick bases a lot of his arguments on defensive stats. By that measure, Curry is a better defender than Klay, and Harden is unfairly maligned as the worst defender in the league when he's not even close to being that bad, if you just follow the defensive numbers.

Overall, I think Curry has improved on defense, but he's nowhere close to being elite. I actually think Klay is an overrated defender and Curry is a bit underrated, some people think he's a bad defender which I don't think is the case anymore. Also, Harden is way underrated on D, he might be below average but to say he's worse than guys like Lillard, Irving and DeRozan is just plain ignorance.

 

No he doesn't , he made one or two mentions about stats, or 2-3 minutes of a 12 minute video. Most of it was examples of Curry's excellent positioning/quickness/effort...

If Harden tried all the time, he wouldn't get any hate for his D. It's really that simple.

Harden's defense is good when he's focused and putting effort into it, I'd even go as far as to say Harden is a much better 1v1 defender than Curry, but as far as team defense goes, Curry is far ahead..

there are easily 5 plays every game where Harden is thinking about doing something else.

I also don't think you can cross compare PGs and SGs really since defending PGs in the NBA is much more difficult than it is SGs

1. The players are better 2. They have the ball so much of the time.

 

that's even worse, because by cherry picking few instances of good defense, you can basically make any player to look like prime Gary Payton. As far as player evaluation, stats are the way to go, because it contains all the relevant info gathered throughout the 82 games and averages them out, so it is actually generalizable unlike the eye test.

Curry is a better defender than Harden at this point, I've got no qualms about that. Harden showed that he can be at least somewhat decent defensively in OKC, and I actually think it's a mix of mental lapses + bad defensive fundamentals that's really holding him back in this area. Effort is part of the issue, but somebody needs to teach him about defense 101, I don't think he's gotten any lesson on that. It's the same thing with Dwight, he used to be an elite defender, but now that his athleticism is gone, his defense is very unimpressive because he never had that sound defensive fundamentals (like good positioning, when to help and when not to help, etc.), whereas Duncan at 40 can still be very effective team defender solely for that reason.

I don't know whether PGs are more difficult to defend, but perimeter defense isn't nearly as important as interior defense in terms of making an impact.



There's only so much you can do as a guard- close out on the shooters and don't let your man blow by - whereas for a big man, you are basically the centerpiece of your team's defense and the probably the main help defender. That's why majority of DPOYs have gone to the centers in the past and there is almost no DPOY from the PG position (the Glove was prolly the last one). I always say if you want to figure out what's wrong with your team's defense, don't look at the little guys and turn your attention towards forwards and centers.

 

Yeah for sure, Curry has the benefit of playing with Green, who I think is the premier help/rim protector in the NBA right now, and Bogut who has also been playing great defensively.

what grinds me the most about the Rockets and their lack of defense is who seems to get the blame for it.

Harden always gets most of the blame while DH gets a pass due to reputation, when in reality, DH doesn't close out on poppers, doesn't show on the PNR, overhelps in the paint, goes too hard for the blocks -- basically a bad defender.

DMO was an underrated defender for us last year, never gets enough credit.

 

It's not cherry-picking, though. If you watch him play and focus on just Curry, you see all the things he does defensively. He doesn't lose his man while tracking the ball, even though his man usually moves around a lot, he keeps his head on a swivel for screens when his man has the ball and either interposes his body between his man and the screener, making it difficult to execute the screen or gets over the screen while remaining attached to his man. He's also smart about doubling and plays the passing lanes without over-committing in search of steals. On the ball, he can be shot over, but he's extremely active with his hands to bother dribblers and challenge shots.

When it comes to defense, it's not about just the eye test or stats. Defense, in all sports, has always been tougher to measure and quantify in numbers and basketball isn't different in that regard. If you want a proper picture of a player, you need to look at the defensive metrics as well as watch the player a lot. The Warriors are on TV a lot, so you can see a lot of Curry's defense. I think "elite" is perhaps pushing it, but I think that outside of maybe Chris Paul, Mike Conley and Ricky Rubio, Curry's in the next tier of point guard defenders.

You're right that a highlight reel is not a good measure of defense, but a video like that is still useful as long the clips shown are actually representative, which (IMO) they are. The fact that it has a lot of downvotes and negative comments is pretty meaningless...a bunch of casual fans who don't actually pay much attention to individual defense saying, "Curry good at defense? GTFO with that garbage" isn't very compelling.

 

If a team has weak perimeter defenders, the forwards/centers will be forced to provide frequent help defense which will lead to early foul trouble. Even if the center provides help defense and avoids fouling, the offense has a better chance of getting the offensive rebound.

In the beginning of the season, Dwight consistently provided help defense and contested shots. However, since we didn't have a legit 4, we were rarely able to get the defensive rebound and allowed offensive put-backs. Eventually, the level of his help defense decreased as he focused more on rebounding position.

 

Curry has an elite post-3 dance celebration. That alone makes him MVP.

 

totally disagree. I've always said that there is something wrong with Dwight physically or just mentally checked-out because he didn't challenge shots and was extremely slow on rotations, basically getting killed by the perimeter shooters every time there was a mismatch. Also, he never really cared to box-out anymore and only went for the easy rebounds. Dwight just admitted today that he basically mailed it in for the entire season because of lack of post touches. You can't defend him anymore when he himself acknowledged that he wasn't on board with this team from the get go and didn't play with full effort. Had nothing to do with Harden, look at our defensive rating on and off Harden, basically the same. Dwight is who he is, always a quitter. We should've paid more attention to Kobe and Nash's warning before making decisions on acquiring him.

 

Whatever. Dwight didn't quit at the start of the season. It was gradual.

 

It wasn't, but that's not even important because Dwight himself said that Morey not allowing him more post touches was the reason why he got disinterested in the game. Dwight wanted to be more involved in our offense, and Morey being the stat guy knew that was a crazy thing to do since Dwight's post-up was horribly inefficient and not a good possession for us. So, it was Dwight being a total sucker on offense but still demanding the ball, and our GM rightfully declining it, that led to his pathetic effort on defense, not Harden.

 

Harden's Beard: "That video is a joke, he uses defensive stats lmao."
Other poster:" no, only for two minutes of the whole Video"
Harden's Bears:" That's even worse, stats are the way to go."

You really sound unbiased, breh.