DREAMer, Oh, it is not that "trying," unless we try to place blame. I'm not trying to place blame. I'm trying to read you better. But you keep showing more interest in the "trying" posts. You seem to continue to say it was all about the July negotiations. I don't buy it that the phrase "Houston was never in the running" necessarily was referring to the Rockets first offer. It could easily mean before that. How? Because this isn't like Nolan Ryan for one big reason...baseball starters start every 5 games, and their game is completely in their control on those days. Was anyone telling Ryan that he couldn't start? Basketball players must play within a team concept. We were telling Dream he couldn't get the ball like he wanted, for 2 years now, if not more. If Dream wasn't happy playing for 2 yrs with our new team concept, he's free to leave and kudos for finding a real playoff team. DREAMer, you are inventing a story based on surface facts just like everyone else. Your story is weighted more towards finding a money fit than a basketball fit. The former one makes mgmt look like the culprit or Dream, whereas the latter one makes it more about Dream accepting the team situation and just wanting a better one for himself. The latter one says that he never believed Rudy would get him involved for 2-3 more years like he wanted, and Rudy wasn't going to lie to convince him to stay. That is my explanation for why they "were never in the running." No offer was going to keep him here that didn't involve some basketball promises; money was secondary. I consider my view of history to show two sides who showed a lot of respect for the game. Dream didn't want to play except in a style he loved, and no offer was going to change that. Rudy showed respect for the game and Dream by not lying to him about a change in style was coming. Saying that ultimate respect for basketball is to retire a Dream at home under his terms is a phoney compromise for fan nostagia ONLY!!!! Dream didn't want a parade. He said that. He also said he wanted a different offense. He wanted Rudy to look him in the eye and say, "You're right. We need to run a different offense to get you more involved." Rudy didn't want to lie.
That would make sense, and I would agree with you, were it not for one thing. That one thing is that Hakeem was happy (or at least content) scoring 12 - 13 ppg, and grabbing 8 - 9 rpg, while playing 28 or so mpg. You know how I know? He did it as recent as LAST YEAR! Last year, he was moping and complaining because the Rockets were not even letting PLAY in the 4th quarter. When, he was finally allowed to be on the court during the decisive part of the game, he did not complain. He simply played, and showed why he was right and the Rockets were wrong, about keeping him out. I do realize that the Rockets had multiple motives to keep Hakeem out of the game. Some of them had to do with developing the team that was to be after Dream left. Some of the reasons were for Hakeem's health. Some were match-ups. Some were something else. So, if you go by Hakeem's most recent actions, then the contract problems were due to the lack of money, and not his "role" on the team. But, money was not at the base of the problems. It was Hakeem's perceived disrespect at the ridiculously low contract offer by the Rockets (a perception, anyone in his situation would have). --------------- On a different note: People keep bringing up how Hakeem lied (or whatever you want to call it) about when he was going to retire. Well, much of that "retirement" talk was due to TWO career threatening maladies: the asthma-like condition, and the blood clots. Hakeem has since then found a way to control them and still play in the NBA.
Now see thats what I'm talking about. It was like Rudy didn't want to get to depndent on Hakeem in case he retired, but once Hakeem said he might want to play some more, then something had to be done. All Rudy had to do is follow the same formula that sloan used with Stockton. Use the tv timeouts and the end of quaters to keep Hakeem fresh. Stockton plays the same 25-30 min, but it is never a chance that he's is and not on the court during the 4th quarter which was the main problem. I remember watching games last yr early on that Matt Bullard or Thomas was playing center, that was crazy. People keep talking about time, but Taylor played 1 more minute per game than Hakeem and about 10 more games. Its too late now, but I thought the Rockets were going to be different from the Oilers and Astros and see our greatest player retire in the city he has ever known. Look up and show and please tell me that Taylor, Norris, and rice are more important to this team advancing than Hakeem. Lets also mention the fact that we f****d ourselves out a chance for Duncan. If we didn't have the Rice, Taylor , and Norris contracts anchoring us down, when Hakeem left in 2003 we would have some change to go after a Duncan. Now the only way we can make a push at him is if we can some how trade Taylor, Cato and someone else for him when we open our new building. The future does look bright with Francis and Mobley, but recent yr have shown that its next to impossible to win in the west when your best player is 6'3 and 6'4. Even Payton had teh Reign Man and Stockton had Mailman, who does Steve have, Taylor,Thomas , and Cato? That will get us 1st round exits like T' Wolves. If Griffin turns out to be the truth, that would be great, otherwise it doesn't look good at all.
please, you do NOT put all your eggs in the tim duncan basket, youre screwed if you dont get him and youre seriously going to tell me you dislike our future taylor is an underrated player because people frown on his rebounding, stevie is unbelievable, griffin has shown lots of flashes of future greatness and should be our center of the future in a few years, mobes is one hell of a right hand man and even glen on this team can be productive as hell be a 4th/5th option, plus torres,kt,mooch etc give us a solid bench see this is what youre forgetting these arent the past suns or sonics teams kidd is a distributor not a franchise type player who can take over games consistently like steve, and the suns had no interior presence for years, plus he never had a healthy penny, in paytons case he had kemp and what else, decent role players, like ellis, mcmillian, wingate, cage, perkins etc this is more like iverson in philly but with weapons AI wishes he could have, yes nothings a sure guarantee but i sure as hell like the course our franchise has taken and i dont sit on my laurels praying for tim duncan to land in my lap, not that i wouldnt love td, but griffin will be that kind of player in time. Our core is young, very young, but soon, like next yr we will be bonafide contender material. This yr is an aberration, right now we are a car without its engine-francis, brakes-taylor, and the spark-mobley is playing hurt right now, because of pride and doing well, btw we are not out of any playoff chase we just need to get a win and string a few together in december and then soar when steve gets back, the west is not as strong as it was last yr, more top loaded.
CBFC: Great post. As always. Dreamer: I would have taken your posting more serious and may have even attempted to engage you a bit ... but, well .... your past posts/threads clearly point to the root of your anguish. It would be pointless to engage you in debate. Your intent and the narrow-minded fervor you exert while posting the same thematic stand over and over again - blind Hakeem worship -leaves no room for understanding or dialogue. I'd be happy to discuss any other subject in the future.
I just love when the "Hakeem-bashers" get all condescending and exaggerative with the "Hakeem-supporters". Condescending: "It would be pointless to engage you in debate. Your intent and the narrow-minded fervor you exert while posting the same thematic stand over and over again... leaves no room for understanding or dialogue." Exaggerative: "blind Hakeem worship" How am I a "blind Hakeem worship[per]"? I've admitted that it was partially Hakeem's decision to not accept the Rocket's semi-reasonable final offer. I've admitted that Hakeem has said and done things that were detrimental to the team. I've said that the Rockets are still my favorite team. I guess if I'm a blind Dream worshipper, then that makes you a blind Rocket's organization worshipper, who no matter what owner they have, or coach they hire/fire, or what offense they run, or what player personnel moves they make, or whether or not they stay in Houston, it doesn't matter they're always right. Why can't you admit that most Rocket fans would've liked to see Hakeem finish his career here in Houston? Why can't you admit that the Rocket's initial offer to Hakeem was well below market value, and insulting, much like the offer Nolan Ryan received. Why can't you admit that for every thing Hakeem said/did that had a negative impact on the team, the organization said/did things about/to Hakeem that had an equally negative impact on the relationship between the two.
Nolan Ryan was still pitching no-hitters when we offerred him a crap contract. Hakeem is not exactly the Ryan Express these days. MOre like Cafe Express. >>>"Well, much of that "retirement" talk was due to TWO career threatening maladies: the asthma-like condition, and the blood clots. Hakeem has since then found a way to control them and still play in the NBA." Not true. He always said his injuries were not holding him back when he had them, and would not impact his decision either way. He said that one million times. His retirement timtable was based on the "life has other challenges for me other than basketball" line of logic, not the "I can't do it anymore" -- like Hakeem would EVER cop to that. He did not lie when he decided to keep playing; he changed his mind. Fine. But we were not obliged to subsidize his fantasy world any more than we had. This from a Fan Club that very much wanted him back, by the way. But not at the expense of the Rockets future. CBFC
BTW DREAMer, Hakeem DID NOT have a blood clot last year. Never there. It was never there. Dr Lowe and Dr Muntz both said that. What is really odd to me is that Dream was supposedly given blood thinners to withhold him for 3-6 months...well into the free agent market. Then out of nowhere Dr Muntz (Houston's #1 internist and a friend of the family) appears to correct Dr Lowe and say, you could have prescribed him this miracle drug that can get him ... amazingly ... on the court tomorrow!!! wink wink Precautionary Blood thinners leading into his free agency!?!?!?! You know how that reads to me. That is a face off to me. That is Dream saying "See this playoff drive I gave you." And Rudy saying, "Dude, I am NOT changing the offense." In fact, you can take a seat in the executive doghouse, where we invent medical maladies to keep things quiet, and we'll say you are out for 3-6 mos on blood thinners. So Dream, when you want to accept Rudy's offense, we will give you the miracle drug so the blood thinner caper will not hurt your free agency. Rudy and Dream had it out in Dec and Jan. There are insiders who said this. No one really argues that. imo, Dream took a forceful stand, and they agreed to compromise for a playoff run. But I really do not see Dream content and happy like you say. The precautionary blood thinner followed by the miracle drug is so similar to other tales of Dream being benched...I can't help but think that is feuding. I'm still not blaming anyone. You are. I will NEVER admit that it was just money. The Rudy and Dream relationship broke down. We were "never in the running" starting with that handling of the elusive blood clot.
Here's another thought: He got rolled by Tim Duncan and the Spurs. He also blasted the Rockets in an interview on Fox tonight. It sure is easy to kick a team when they are down and didn't want you. Let it go, Hakeem. Old School
Damn.....Hakeem sounds pretty pissed. I've always agreed that he wanted to leave and start fresh, but that article doesn't make it sound that way. Still, I don't think he makes that big of a difference on this Rocket team. We win one or two more games at this point and still don't have enough to make any kind of noise when it counts. Plus I'm still not convinced he won't go down for an extended period of time, but only time will tell. We are better served taking our lumps now and looking forward to greener pastures in the future.
Didn't the article sound very true though. I mean if we were truly in a rebuilding/youth movement, why Rice and Willis? Why did they lowball him at 4.1 for 1 yr? Why was he on the bench early in the season instead of Matt Bullard and Kenny Thomas? What he said sounds true to me and the negotiating was made to seem like they were really in it. This article can go on and on, but I do agree with what was said. It's sad that some of these other stars can finish in one jersey, but our greatest player can't!
And the guy just came out of Ramadan. And the guy is getting used to new players. He'll rock within a month or two... (hell, hasn't he already had a 20 reb outing this year?) Great post, btw Dreamer. I liked your point that many that are unhappy w/ Dream now are organization worshippers... blind to the umpteen million mistakes this past summer. I respect Carroll Dawson, but I'm totally confused that he would give the slightest bit of support to acquiring Rice. Jerry West got rid of Rice. Now say that Scott Layden is trying to get rid of Rice. Hmmm... do we really know more than Jerry West and Scott Layden about players on their team(s) Carroll? I can understand Rudy's opinion. Rudy's an idiot.... swayed by images of Rice shooting 3 pointers from 6 years ago. Hell, Rudy traded 3 first rounders to try to get a top 3 point shooter this past draft. Now with Oscar's production, I bet he'll wave Steve at Chicago next year to get Ming. Doesn't that sound exciting? Moochie can dribble the ball for 20 seconds and then pass to Ming... but for some reason Ming is 24' away from the basket... oh yeah, b/c he's a 7'5" ****ing perimeter shooter! Awesome! But, in the defense of some of those people (a few) that are unhappy w/ Dream, I think it's natural to shore up after your team makes a mistake such as this. It's the classical ingroup/outgroup scenario... and whatever fans have... they still have their team. Since Dream's on the other side now, most people try to wipe the slate clean w/ a big ol' {reset}. For the rest, I assume it's because they have secret motives about how Dream being on the low block is some sort of hinderance. Because, god forbid, we're never going to have one of those hokey competent post up players again. We need veterans that will stretch the offense and let our point guard bang w/ 300 lbers. It all makes so much sense now. Rebuilding and stuff. Rah Rah. Here's to rebuilding Torres. I hope his one year contract doesn't take off on us next year, b/c he's the one silver lining right now.
