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Smiling From the Womb

Discussion in 'BBS Hangout: Debate & Discussion' started by MadMax, Sep 15, 2003.

  1. Maynard

    Maynard Member

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    I agree, Information is king! Maybe somepeople will decide not to terminate..

    But still leave the decision up to the individual, not the government
     
  2. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Good points.

    Making educated decisions is *extremely* important, especially in these kinds of situations. I'm pro-choice, but objective education and compassionate understanding cannot be over-emphasized in dealing with these delicate matters.
     
  3. A-Train

    A-Train Member

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    "Hm, if I didn't know better, I'd swear he was trying to moon us."

    - Julius Hibbert, MD
     
  4. MacBeth

    MacBeth Member

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    Given the connotations, I personally find this incredibly sad, although not a revelation to me. When we use finite scientific speculation to justify very final resolutions on other parties, we take incredible risk and responsibility into our hands, and we have repeatedly shown that we are not yet worthy of such a burden.
     
  5. Master Baiter

    Master Baiter Member

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    When Randi, my wife, was pregnant with our daughter she had a test done (do not remember which one) and the results of this test said that we were likely to have a Down's baby. Of course this was very disturbing and upsetting. We then had to go and have an amniosynthesis (sp?) to verify if she was Down's or not. We had to wait several weeks for the results of this test and the wait was absolutely horrible. It came back that she was normal and we have a beautiful daughter now. They gave us the option of abortion if it came back that she was had Down's Syndrome. I would not have given her up for anything. Because of this experience, we will not have anymore kids. I cannot imagine going through it again. I was fixed not long after she was born to ensure that it didnt happen again. If we had it to do all over, we would not have had that test done as it is only voluntary. I wouldnt want to know if my baby had Downs' or anything similar because that would only taint what you thought of them before they were born. Take what God has given you and be thankful.
     
  6. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Dude, I'm sorry you had to go through all that. Must have been hell. I'm glad to hear your daughter is healthy and loved.
     
  7. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    Absolutely. Good points.

    With this issue, there are no absolutes. However, the more information and education we have, the better.
     
  8. BlastOff

    BlastOff Member

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    Props, MB. Not many fellas would do what you did.

    I did the same 10 years ago, but for different reasons (three kids in three years was more than enough).
     
  9. bnb

    bnb Member

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    We passed on the pre-natal testing for this very reason!

    Also, by the time the results are known, it's quite late in the pregnancy. That's some roller coaster of emotions you went through MB.
     
  10. pgabriel

    pgabriel Educated Negro

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    M.B.,

    The same thing happened to my sister when she had her first child. If these tests are so inaccurate, I can't understand why they don't wait for the final conclusion to tell the parents.
     
  11. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Our doctor told us very clearly that the "triple screen" test (actually tests for Downs along with 4 others) had a VERY high rate of both false positives and false negatives, but that the test, along with a good 20 week ultrasound, virtually ruled out these defects. Thankfully, the test came out negative and the ultrasound came out as it was supposed to. Even so, the doc made it very clear that, in his words, "the proof is in the pudding," and that nothing is certain until he pops out.

    The reason they take those tests is to have all possible information going into it. I think that for most people, that information is very useful.
     
  12. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    And if we are going to reduce rates of abortion in our society, the way to do it is with education. Perhaps seeing clear pictures of fetal development will cause women to decide not to have an abortion, which would be a good thing.

    I will reiterate a point made in a previous post: That power belongs to the woman, not to the government.
     
  13. MadMax

    MadMax Member

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    and i'll reiterate the question (which i already know your answer to -- so no need to respond):

    even if it tends to convince you that this is a living being inside the womb, separate and distinct from the mother who is hosting it?
     
  14. underoverup

    underoverup Member

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    Smiling babies in the womb :) I want some babies :)

    All these baby threads--- yikes.
     
  15. TraJ

    TraJ Member

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    I'm not entirely sure how you meant this to be taken, but it fits almost perfectly my view for why abortion ought to be illegal. I've always been very uncomfortable about the convenient definitions of when life begins. (Who says we have instruments sensitive enough to gauge this with any real degree of accuracy?) If scientists have been wrong about that, then we've been ending the lives of human beings for decades without even giving them a chance. Talk about responsibility.
     
  16. GladiatoRowdy

    GladiatoRowdy Member

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    Yes, absolutely. Until the day that the government can harvest and raise that fetus itself, it is the woman's choice what to do with her body, which by my definition includes the fetus. If the government is to tell a woman not to terminate her pregnancy, it may only do so if it can take over the care of the child. As long as it needs the placenta attached to its mother to survive, it is a part of her body.
     
  17. TraJ

    TraJ Member

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    So, even if you believed it was a living being, you would support the mother's right to kill it?
     
  18. GreenVegan76

    GreenVegan76 Member

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    If a mom wants to kill what you call a baby, how good a mother would she be?

    I'm not saying women who get abortions don't make good parents, but if they're even *looking into* abortion, perhaps they're not ready to provide the environment this baby will need for the next 18 years. It's not right to make a child pay for his parents' mistakes.

    If you can't trust a woman with a choice, how can you trust her with a baby?
     
  19. TraJ

    TraJ Member

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    I wouldn't argue with you for a moment that the baby would be better off. But I think the same thing could be said about some 1, 2, 3, and 4-year-olds. Does that mean their parents would be justified in killing them?

    Also, I was asking andymoon if he was convinced it was a child (not taking into consideration my opinion about the matter at all), would he be for mothers having the right to abort their pregnancy. Or take it a step further, if it was proven beyond a doubt that they're human beings, would you still support a mother's right to choose?
     
  20. moestavern19

    moestavern19 Member

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    Is it a lifeform or not?

    That is not a legitimate argument, it is merely denial twisted around and sprinkled with guilt. Ready to serve to the masses of individuals searching for anything to clear their own conflicted consciences.

    Believe what you will believe for now. For life is but a gift, and what shall we say to the giver of this life when it questions why we have spent so much time snuffing out that which it gives freely and asks for nothing in return? Perhaps denial and guilt come in to play there as well, maybe we won't be responsible for our actions?

    We shall all find out in due time. My only thoughts are with those who lost their chance at this great experience called life before they were even given a glimpse at what had been in store for them. What do I know? I know nothing, and you will retort me, and you may try to place the same guilt back on me since it is so readily availible within your own self. Perhaps as I am may be doing at this very minute.

    I should not judge, for who am I to point out the shortcomings of the human race when I have been caught up in so many of them?
    My beliefs will not change, neither will yours. then the questions could be posed "For what reason is our need to dispute?" We were not all made passive individuals, the DNA that flows through our very bodies does not permit replications of its blueprint in this manner. Conflicts rise, and we must abide by the laws of our constitution, for without it, we are without law and order.
     

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