Slam! ranks Hakeem 12th among the 75 All Time Greats...

The ommission of Calivn Murphy and their placing of Drexler below Pippen invalidates this list altogether. You can't expect to be taken seriously when you leave off the best free throw shooter of all time and continue the MYTH that Jordan couldn't have won any titles without Scottie and that he deserves to be a top 50 player of all time.

 

Dude what are you saying, I SAID SHAQ HAS MORE RINGS AND BETTER NUMBERS, read my earlier posts, how do you get Ewing is better than Hakeem out of that. MY POINT WAS WHEN HAKEEM WON IN 94, THE KNICKS AND THE ROCKETS ONLY HAD ROLE PLAYERS, TO REFUTE YOUR 94 CHAMPIONSHIP POINT. SO YES THE DIFFERENCE WAS OLAJUWON.

 

What im saying is there is that Shaq has no comp, If Hakeem, Robinson and Ewing were still around in there prime Shaq would not be the best centre in the league.

Shaq may be today a slightly more effictive offensive player because of size only, Hakeem was easily twice as good on the defensive end.

Who wants to see a fat man stand around the basket and dunk and get grabage points anyway.

Hakeem could put the ball on the floor had many original moves and the killer he could actually shoot the ball!

now go back to your lakers forum.

 

Just because this is a Rockets forum doesn't mean I'm going to say that Vernon Maxwell is the greatest shooting guard in the league. That's immature, grow up.

And I bet Laker fans enjoy seeing Shaq's fat but under that basket collecting rings, you would to if he succeeded Olajuwon at center.

 

I think it's pretty fair. I also think that Kobe will top that list by the end of his career. He has 3 rings in, what, 5 seasons?

Everytime you think he can't improve anymore, he improves.

There's bound to be some glitched in a 75 player list of ALL TIME. I think they did as good a job as possible overall.

 

Mark Aguirre shouldn't be within smelling distance of this list.

 

Well, I live in the DC area now and I've yet to meet a basketball fan that believes Shaq is the better center. So that's at least one place at least

 

Harkeem is more skilled that Shaq, there is absolutely no debate here.

But when you discuss about the greatness of a player you have to consider his overall impact to the league, even to the game of basketball. NBA has changed rules 3 times to limit 3 great centers: Mikan, Wilt and Shaq.

In the 95 final, Harkeem didn't dominate Shaq (he had slightly better stats but he didn't dominate Shaq as he did to league MVP DRob in the previous round). Magic completely choked (Nick Anderson anyone?). Shaq was 22 and Dream was in his prime. If you put Dream in 94 and 95 against Shaq in 00 and 01, I doubt Dream can dominate Shaq AT ALL.

 

I remember Hakeem sending tapes to the NBA officials to show that he did not travel when making the Dream Shake.

Yes, Hakeem didn't dominate Shaq the way he did DRob but what is interesting is his team dominated Shaq's team worse. You can make arguments about stats forever, but a sweep was a sweep. Anderson may have choked in game 1 but that doesn't mean the rest of the series was moot. Rockets owned the Magic in the last three.

Shaq may double Hakeem's rings when its all said and done but you will find twice the respect for Hakeem and his accomplishments. Can you say Hakeem never played to the best of his potential? Can you say Hakeem shows up out of shape for half the season? Yes, maybe these arguments also show how great Shaq is but you can't get over the fact that the best true centers in the league after Shaq have trouble scoring 20+ and grabbing 10+ rebounds.

 

Why are y'all arguing with a list that puts Dennis Rodman at 69th? I always thought Slam! never had a clue what they're talking about, this just confirms my belief. Btw, Hakeem is ranked lower than Shaq cuz Shaq plays in LA. Pure and simple.

 

I am completely confused by your post.

I thought we were debating Shaq vs Dream, not Rockets vs. Magic?

By the same token, you would list Horace Grant and/or Bob Horry over Tim Duncan since Lakers completely destroyed Spurs in 01, wouldn't you?

 

How about Hakeem played 3-4 yrs as a shadow of his former self, thus decreasing his stats.

How about the fact that Hakeem has led the league in blocks and rebounding, something Shaq has never done (odd since the majority of his shots are in the paint).

How about the fact that Shaq has had talent on all his squads, yet only has one more ring than Dream, got dusted by Dream when it all mattered, and did not start winning championships until there was no one left at his position to compete with him (on the other hand, Dream went through Ewing, Robinson and Shaq to get his rings).

How about the fact that Shaq has played with a second superstar on his team for every yr besides his rookie yr, but has still been swept out of the Playoffs (every yr besides the last 3)more than Hakeem (only once in 96), who had less talent.

How about Dream was only in his second season when he took it to LA and Kareem. How about Dream was only in his second season, yet still was able to help the Rockets take two games from the Celtics in the Finals (Shaq could not manage to get his team ONE GAME against the 95 Rockets). How about it's quite obvious what Dream could have accomplished if he played half of his career surrounded with talent ala Shaq.

Hell, we can even take it back to college. How about Dream was able to take his squad to 3 Final Fours (one without Drexler).

How about Shaq has not proven that he can't win without some help (Dream has).

They had enough great players to beat the Indiana squad that swept the Orlando squad that Shaq was on.

Hmm, what rules changed because of Shaq? If anything, the rules changed to help him. No more touching hands in the back of your opponent, less handchecking, allowing the offensive player to dislodge, etc. I hope you were not referring to the Zone. Rudy and his Iso's take all the credit for that.

Shaq has gotten bigger and slower since 95. What has he shown you since then to make you think he could stop Dream from scoring.

And please stop using that he was 22 garbage. How old was Magic when he first won one? What about Bird. Didn't Dream go to the Finals in his second year?

You might see big numbers and dominance when you look at Shaq. I judge you by what you win. When I look at Shaq I see a center that has had more talent on his squads than most can dream of, yet did not manage to win until the competition at his position was laughable.

 

The main reason most people say Shaq is better now is because Hakeem is gone, they never saw him, cant remember him or are just bandwagoners.

Hakeem had the total package, offense, defense, passing, shooting range and a great understanding of the game.

Hakeem could match Shaq in points any game but could Shaq match Hakeem in blocks and steals?

 

whoa...this is not true.

The NBA changes rules every year, nearly. The NBA actually said they were changing rules to widen the lane to limit the domination of Mikan and Wilt. The NBA hasn't widen the lane since, and never said Shaq was a reason for any real "change." I guess you are talking about the zone rules or the "backing it in." The "backing it in" was widely regarded as the "Barkley Rule," so we can say that the NBA changed a rule to limit Barkley.

The NBA actually changed rules to help Shaq...no more two arms pushing in the low block, and balanced that by saying dislodging must be followed to the letter...but both already existed.

The zone rule was widely regarded to stop Iverson and Stackhouse (and cc.net claimed it was to stop Rudy). Anyhow, that rule was to stop guard high wing ISOs.

So, please explain to me and show me where exactly the NBA claimed to make a change to stop Shaq?

 

LOL!!! Well stated

 

Only people in this chatroom argue Hakeem is better? I think your wrong on this. Did you see Hakeem in his prime? The guy could do it all both offensively and defensively. He took the young Shaq to school.

I believe many people outside of this chat would argue that the Dream was better than Shaq. As great as Shaq is, Hakeem was flat out unstoppable in his prime. Both offensively and defensively, Shaq was dominating but I never felt he was unstoppable on offense and defense. Could he hit free throws at the end of the game? Does he have a goto move at the end of a game? How good of a shotblocker is he?

 

And according to you, if your hero Dennis Scott outscores Michael Jordan in the playoffs, he is better than MJ (this quite possibly could have happened in '94-95)??? Let's compare stars to stars. To me, a star takes ultimate responsiblity for whether his team loses or not. Shaq was able to take it after getting swept.

Anyways, when you compare great players, you compare many intangibles. Maybe Shaq is great to you because the separation between him and other centers in the league is so great. But, to me, Hakeem is better because he took a team on his back and won it all. When you remember the Rockets of '93-'95, casual fans remember only one name...Hakeem. When you think of the Lakers of today, its Shaq and Kobe.

 

The NBA moved the 3-pt line in the year after the Rockets' first championship. The reason was to help defenses get out on 3-pt shooters, and discourage teams (read: the Rockets) from dumping it in to the post and camping out behind the arc. In effect Hakeem's dominance caused this rule change.

 

I'm surprised that no one's commented on the top 75 list Slam came out with to answer the NBA's top 50 back in 1997. This is all from memory, but I'm pretty sure I'm right: Olajuwon was 10, and Dr. J tied for 11 (with Jerry West I think). For some reason, Dream dropped below the Doctor--I guess they got new editors in the last six years.

From what I recall, the top seven was:

1. Jordan
2. Russell
3. Magic
4. Bird
5, 6, 7. Kareem, Oscar, Wilt, in some order. I think Wilt was 7.

So, Wilt's moved up 3-5 spaces, the Big O up 3ish, and Dr J. 1 space, with Dream, Russell, Magic, and Bird down 2 each. Shaq obviously has reason to have jumped from not even being on the list up to the top 10, but these other shifts just prove ranking players is inexact and meaningless...but fun.

As for Olajuwon, there is no question he can be rated with any other center, or player for that matter--he was a great offensive player (though not of Shaq or Wilt's caliber), and he was the single greatest defensive force EVER. Number one in blocks, number SIX in steals. A defensive predator with such height, speed, and leaping ability (38'' vertical, I believe) is truly a unique thing, pushing Olajuwon into the top 10 I would think.