Excellent post, completely agree. Along with the women beaters, drug abusers, etc.....that are also in the Hall.
I hear ya, but we have gamblers and racists in the hall. Dude lied to Congress, but if you start keeping people out based on moral issues and anything other than play on the field, then Ty Cobb and a host of other low-lifes have to come out.
speaking of steroids, I heard the jurors at the clemens trial responded to questions by saying the government should be spending time on more important issues. my how times have changed.
I feel like he lied to all of us. My dad beat it into me that there was nothing worse than lying. Its amazing how effective it was. The problem with banning any of those people is that we just don't know about everyone else. I was a huge Steve McNair fan. I am a Titans fan purely because I loved the way he played. Everyone saw him as a great guy, and then he was killed by his mistress. Tiger Woods went 15 years in the spotlight, and nobody mentioned him going out, partying and having all these sexual relationships. Any player from the 70s forward could have been doping. Any guy could be going home and slapping his wife around. Anybody could be having sex parties on boats.
I have to admit that this is true. Clemens deserves what he has gotten himself into with his arrogance, but there are far more important things for the prosecution to be investigating, and Congress to be worrying about.
Agreed. My biggest issue, building on this idea that the baseball HoF is going to look mighty vacant when documenting the 90s/00s, is that these are baseball *writers*. They’re not scientists or researchers or doctors. They have NO IDEA what impact steroids had on any of these careers but they’re being rather myopic in how they wield their power when it comes time to vote. Big, strong & powerful = steroids. That’s a pretty ridiculously simplistic viewpoint. And yet it’s *exactly* how they think. So a guy like Bagwell is suspicious but meek little Greg Maddux, who was highly effective well into his 30s, isn’t? That, to me, is just wrong. Either *every* player comes under suspicion or you need to stop this inane “eye/smell test” idea, which is completely devoid of any scientific and/or medical (and, while we’re here: statistical) evidence. Every time I’m reminded pious morons of the highest order deemed Bagwell a cheater with absolutely ZERO evidence that wasn’t widly circumstantial, I get upset all over again. He never tested positive. He was not included in the Mitchell Report. Those are, so far as we know, facts. Everything else is supposition and innuendo. Facts are ALL they should be considering, along with his statistical accomplishments (which merit almost automatic Hall of Fame entrance). Gah. Burns me up he’s carrying this burden. I find the “eye test” hopelessly moronic. He played in Houston, which, to those guys, might as well be Mars. Which is fine on the surface. If you didn’t see a lot of Craig Biggio because you covered the Red Sox and lived in Boston – cool. But that should lead you to do some *digging* not conclude he doesn't pass some arbitraily made-up test. This idea that Bagwell or Biggio are being held accountable for not cutting through a firewall these media guys have more or less created themselves is just remarkably stupid. Case in point: I loathe the media’s coverage of Derek Jeter. So much so that I have absolutely, positively allowed it to color my opinion of him. If I gave no other consideration to Jeter, he’d never get my non-existent Hall of Fame vote. But a quick – and I do mean quick - check of his stats deflates that balloon pretty quickly and confirms that while he’s absolutely overexposed, he’s a *great* player and would absolutely snag my vote. But these guys are too lazy and arrogant to admit they’re wrong and so we get this stupid “eye test” idea that invalidates millions of hours of work being done by people to specifically make these writers’ responsibilities as HoF ambassadors easier and better served. Argh. Drives me insane.
not going to get into a bagwell debat but i whole heartedly agree with this statement. the writers are so pompous on this issue, and you're right, they are not experts. the media is there to document. there is no documentation by experts on what steroids may have meant for the game, only speculation.
Biggio not second best in class of '90s Astros gamer kept achievements clean and uniform dirty (I will post a few passages from it) http://mlb.mlb.com/news/print.jsp?y...&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb&affiliateId=CommentWidget " ... When he retired following the 1997 season, there wasn't much doubt Ryne Sandberg would eventually wind up in the Hall of Fame, even though the final years of his playing career saw Sandberg's numbers fall off from their usual levels. Sure enough, when he was elected to the Hall of Fame in 2005, Sandberg went in because he was arguably the best second baseman of his era (the 1980s) -- a player who could hit, hit for power, run and play Gold Glove caliber defense at a very demanding position." "Some day Houston's Craig Biggio will make it to Cooperstown, and as well he should, because like Sandberg before him, Biggio was the best second baseman of his era and the player who set the standard for all-around excellence at the position. There are some who will argue that Roberto Alomar or Jeff Kent will be remembered as the best second baseman of the 1990s, but both come up short in comparison to Biggio. Alomar and Biggio first reached the Major Leagues in 1988, though Alomar retired following the 2004 season. Alomar appeared in more All-Star Games and won more Gold Gloves than Biggio, but Biggio will finish his career with more hits, homers, RBIs, runs, doubles and total bases. Each stole more than 400 bases. Kent, who broke in in 1992, has hit more homers, but has never won a Gold Glove or ranked among the elite at the position defensively, and has little speed. Kent is the better power hitter, but in terms of all-around skills, he simply doesn't compare to Alomar and Biggio. All three have won four Silver Slugger Awards as second baseman, but Biggio added a fifth at catcher (1989). Biggio is still the only player to make the All-Star team as a catcher and second baseman. Until 2004, the common criticism of Biggio was his poor performance in the postseason -- he'd batted just .111 in his first four playoff series, all losses -- but since then, Biggio has hit .283 (32-for-113) in October with two homers and 10 RBIs to help the Astros reach the National League Championship Series in 2004 and the World Series in 2005. Biggio has achieved more than all but only a few second basemen have ever or likely will ever achieve on a Major League diamond. The second baseman of the '90s? There shouldn't be any doubt, it's the next member of the 3,000 hit club: Craig Alan Biggio."
Kent, sure - but Alomar is... probably better. Better defensively (going from anecdotal memory) and an ever-so slightly better offensive player (higher OPS, OPS+ and WAR). Still, whether better or not - that he's at least comparable to Alomar solidifies his HoF legitimacy.
I said at his best Biggio was better Juicy. That said, statistical analysis has debunked the "better lineup=better stats" argument. Regarding Minute Maid, Biggio's last year outside of Minute Maid (1999) was a higher OPS than he would ever have in Minute Maid. He had a few years where his slugging picked up in MM, but what happened to Biggio is his OBP just tanked. 2001 was the last year he had a good OBP at age 35. Right now Jeter looks like he might age that same way. He had a tremendous year at age 35 and the last two years he's fallen hard. He hasn't been parachuted by a ballpark to help him offensively at all though.
Best selling points for Biggio being HOF: #1: 3,000 Hits Club (He's also the only player in history to have at least 3000 Hits, 600 Doubles, 250 HRs, and 400 Stolen Bases) #2: Was among the best defensive 2B in the league for a stretch of his career. #3: Would have become only the 7th player to reach 300-300 (HRs-SBs), 291 HRs along with 414 SB. #4: 5th all time in Doubles (668), Out of the top 14, the only other ones not in the Hall of Fame is Pete Rose and Barry Bonds. Nuff said. #5: Longevity and consistency, he was never out of rotations, except in his first season and the 2000 knee injury. #6: 7 All Star Appearances #7: He could play almost every position defensively. LOL, outside of pitcher. In fact the only positions he did not play were 1B, SS, and 3B. #8: He was the first player in baseball history to be an all star at catcher (91) and an all star as 2B (92). #9: Most lead-off home runs ever, 50. #10: Compared to other great 2B, there are very few out there who are or were better than him. Even on that token, I cannot say any of them were completely superior to him overall (especially the Golden Age baseball players, since that was a different era of the game). That's controversial, but on a even playing field I cannot say some of those guys would have done more in a modern period than Biggio. Especially, when he has produced the same or better numbers in arguably a tougher era of baseball, more widespread pitching talent, competing against juiced players, and maybe a more demanding game talent wise. (They didn't play night games in those days. Last Point: He stayed clean his entire career, noticeable decline towards the end of his career without controversy. Cannot say that about Roberto Alomar (Mitchell Report). After looking more closely at his numbers, he is 1st Ballot to me. I did not realize he was http://www.baseball-reference.com/players/b/biggicr01.shtml http://www.thebaseballpage.com/baseballpage/top/50-secondbasemen http://www.thebaseballpage.com/players/biggicr01 The Baseball Page is a good source site. OT: Rafael Palmeiro and Frank Thomas, should definitely be in the HOF, especially Thomas. Who cleanly hit 521 HRs, and hit over .300 for his career. 2 AL MVPs. Skip Bayless = Why is this 50 something year old man obsessed with LeBron, A-Rod, and TO? He was also one of those "Aaron Rodgers" haters, it was either Cowherd or Bayless that said last year before that playoff game between Packers and Falcons. Was that Ryan was (or would be) a better QB than Aaron Rodgers, lol. Weird.
Years back I did a study comparing Biggio to the all-time greats. I think there's a small club of SuperElites at the top, and Biggio is on the outside looking in -- but he's just on the outside. Hornsby, Collins, and Morgan are in that SuperElite club. Nap Lajoie, too.
Slight nitpick, that's most lead-off home runs in the NL. Ricky of course holds the actual record for MLB.
