as an aside and speaking of defense, I recently got to watch the Astros lose a game at MMP. sat behind third base, and Barmes was playing short. Dude put on a *clinic* playing short. It was beautiful. Considering how poorly the rest of the game went, that was a pretty enjoyable thing to watch. I didn't realize how well that guy could pick it.
biggio made up for it in 04 and 05, but he and bags were on some good teams when they were failing. that 98 team is probably their best
i can't see your red x, but yes i am serious. jamele has a double whammy, she's black and she's a woman. now I don't like to play the race card on sports journalists, because in reality there are very few that people like. but i rarely see anyone credit a black one. just look at who you went to in your post. stephen a hill is the devil incarnate. and woman, oh just forget it.
I know you didn't ask me, but yes, considering their different positions. All those glove-flipping, diving, acrobatic plays you saw Jeter making? A *great* defensive SS makes those plays standing up.
Jeter is one of the best SS's I've ever seen at positioning himself, Adam Everett was another. In his mid 20's he was very good, very athletic, but he should have moved to 2b about a decade ago. Honestly, discussing defense with either Biggio or Jeter is really kind of pointless, both were average. Both are no-doubt first ballot HOFers. Skip Bayless is an assclown of the highest order, has been for many, many years, back to his Dallas newspaper days if not before. He's Richard Justice with a plastic face & better hair. Got to watch Cleveland and NY last night, damn the Indians have a ridiculously fun middle infield to watch. Reminded me of Vizquel & Alomar.
I wouldn't go so far as "average" for either of those guys. Unless you're counting Jeter's range against him or Bidge's arm against him moreso than I am. I think Jeter was well above average and Biggio was great defensively.
Having followed the Yankees for a while, I can say pretty confidently that Jeter had a good stretch there when he was probably the worst defensive shortstop in all of baseball. I figured most people were familiar with those awful "Pastadiving Jeter" jokes. He actually got better in 2009 and as his arm strength has started to diminish his range seems to be better these days, which is odd for an aging player. I actually thought his defensive shortcomings were pretty well known. Here's an article on the subject by Bill James: http://www.billjamesonline.net/fieldingbible/jeter.asp
I'm not sure why the two are even being compared considering they play different positions., other than Skip opened his trap. Isn't Biggio usually compared to Roberto Alomar? That seems to be the more relevant comparison.
Biggio certainly deserves to be a first ballot HOF. He had some tremendous years and skated through the steroid era untouched. He was an incredible teammate and philanthropist, as well as being the best 2B in the NL for about 10 years. If you put Biggio's '97 - 98' seasons up against any other 2B's best 2 seasons I have a feeling they will compare favorably. 269-Runs 401-Hits 88-Doubles 42-HR 169-RBI 97-SB .317-AVG .911OPS *57-HBP Roberto Alomar (HOF) was my favorite 2B at the time because his defense was magical, but what Biggio lacked in natural athleticism he made up for in scrappiness. Pedroia these days reminds me of a Biggio lite. He doesn't have the speed Bigg had in his prime but he's giving 100% 162 games a year. To play for 20 seasons and have success at 3 different positions that could not be more different from each other is amazing. 3000 hits speaks for itself, but it doesn't tell the whole story of the kind of person/baseball player Biggio was.
Eyes can be very deceiving. I trust statistics, because otherwise, I'm extremely biased. Another factor could be the astroturf he played on all those years.
juice, stats can be just as deceiving, and even moreso if you didn't watch. I watched Sandberg, Sax, Knoblauch (I know that's not spelled right), Alomar, and others a lot back in the day. And none was Biggio's equal defensively except Alomar. I'm aware of my biases, but I've read other figures (including Bill James ironically enough) who agree with me.
