Sixers felt Houston did not call them back for a counteroffer before Brooklyn deal

I don’t know how respond to that...

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This article absolutely did not insinuate that Morey would have accepted, nor did it mention three FRPs. The article mentioned two FRPs, and other articles specified that the Sixers were insistent on adding protections to the picks. I favored the Sixers' discussed trade at first, but it sounds like the real trade would have been Simmons, Thybulle, and two protected FRPs. I prefer the Oladipo and four unprotected FRPs.

 

Simmons is really nothing more than a name. His game will won't translate to a high level playoff team which we have seen year after year when he has had Embiid and Jimmy.

Why would someone be upset we didn't get him? Haven't we seen enough tweeners over the years?

 

Stone on 790 right now.

 

I went off memory of the 3 FRP, it was 2 FRP. Nice take away from a thought out post though.

I'm glad you prefer Oladipo and 4 unprotected picks. It's not insane to favor that package. I preferred Simmons at the time, but he was never really an option.

The Rockets apparently didn't want Simmons (even though I like him, I don't work for the team) and would have flipped him. I didn't know that at the time of my original post either. So ask your self what you prefer. Realistic options would have been Denver for MPJ, Harris and a pick or two Sacramento for Bagley and 2 more FRP. Both trades would require PJ going out to Philly most likely. Let's assume it was 2 FRP, Simmons, Thybulle as the Philly package.

So
Thybulle, Bagley, 2 FRP from Philly, 2 FRP from Sacramento.
MPJ, Harris, Thybulle 1 FRP from Denver, 2 FRP from Philly.

or

Oladipo, Kurucs, Exum, 4 swaps, 3 picks from Brooklyn, 1 pick from Milwaukee.


Those are all debatable. I probably like the deal they took the most out of those. The team didn't want to take on salary from Simmons and wanted a cleaner slate. That's their prerogative. Once again, I don't make decisions for the Rockets. I would have taken Simmons, Thybulle, (required Maxey) and 2 FRP.

It's possible the Rockets flip Oladipo for Herro or some of the picks for MPJ and we end up with a different package by around March 25. The team wanted flexibility and felt this was the best way to get it. I can't fault them because it makes sense to hedge in this situation.

 

Recap?

 

he's been overrated since he got into the league

 

We all know Morey by now... those picks would 100% have been weirdly protected for years out, with the protection changing year after year. No way he gives up multiple unprotected firsts.

I also think that it's much more likely that Oladipo could gather a future FRP(s?) as opposed to Simmons. Teams who are competing are looking for complementary 2-way pieces who fit into any system. Not guys who can't shoot and require a system built around their weakness, while maxing a max salary.

 

Wall-Dipo-Tate wing defense is going to be fun to watch IMO.

 

basically it boils down to would you rather have Simmons or Dipo? And if you take Simmons, you'll have less 1st rounders in return.

 

Two, actually. It's really two protected RFPs v. four unprotected.

 

I was warming up to Simmons until he showed no improvement in games with Embiid out. He played very well and aggressive last year when Embiid was out so I was hopeful he could still be an offensive force even with his lack of shooting. His already limited offense has regressed a bit so that was concerning. Maybe the trade talks are messing with him a little? Either way, his defense is already elite and still elite but I can see why the Rockets were looking to flip him.

It does sound like Bagley + 2 FRP's were on the table but keep in mind these picks were likely to be lottery protected and I can't see the Kings making the playoffs anytime soon. Not to mention that Bagley is likely a rare prospect that has somehow regressed on offense and defense since his rookie year. Not really sure how that happens but it is definitely a red flag just as it is for Simmons. Also, the Philly picks were definitely going to be lottery protected so you are looking at picking in the 20's with those picks.

Flipping Simmons for MPJ is intriguing but are we sure this was on the table? Not sure Denver would really consider this deal even though they need defense in the worst way. Adding $30+mil on such a long term contract when you have MPj making peanuts and putting up 20 and 8 every night? His defense is suspect but Denver would be taking 2 steps forward and 2 steps back in the trade while hamstringing their payroll for years.

Anyways, in hindsight, I definitely see the value in getting an expiring Oladipo on a trial run with Houston and reevaluating what you have in early March and deciding how to move forward with Oladipo. I have mentioned in another post that Oladipo appears healthy enough to return to 2017-2018 form although maybe not this season but next season.

Keep in mind, he still appears to be an ascending player with upside (even though he is 28 and coming off of injury) as he was just showing unbelievable improvement before he got injured and strikes me as a guy who will improve every year of his prime (ala Chauncey Billups, Kyle Lowry, Goran Dragic, etc.) if he just stays healthy and is used in a semi high usage role with other playmakers and finishers around him. His work ethic is what will keep him improving throughout his prime. Not to mention that if he returns to form, he is one of the better perimeter defenders in the league. He is closer to his 6th season in the league than his 8th so there is surprising room for improvement once he settles into a role.

In 2017-2018, Oladipo was a top 20 player and possibly top 15 due to his scoring, clutchness and defense. I realize him returning to that form can be considered a longshot but it is also a longshot for Simmons to improve his offensive game to be considered worthy of a $30 mil contract especially considering he appears to be regressing. Same can be said for Bagley who appears to be too soft to be anything more than Greg Monroe in this league. I will take my chances with Oladipo who was ascending before his injury and appears headed in the right direction post injury. And don't forget the 4 unprotected picks + 4 unprotected swaps that can be used to find similar players to MPj in the next couple of drafts or use their draft haul to trade for players like him on their last year of their rookie deal if their current team doesn't want to pay them the max for whatever reason.

 

Allen trade is already a loss asset wise because the main benefit came from money. Prince is hardly an asset cuz he makes 12.5M this year and 13M next year. I dont think that amount of money is worth it for a 9/3/3 player Tate, Nwaba or Jones will give you that kind of production and just as good defense for the minimum.

I said it on the trade thread but when the money is too big it is hard to justify from the GM/owner perspective. Obviously as bball fans we dont get a single cent from Tillman's LTS so we couldnt care less about his cash, but realistically you cant expect other people to not care about their money. It's their money and their franchise at the end of the day they wont go broke improving the team just cuz we want them to. Allen doesnt just allow Rox to dump Prince's contract (total of 25.5M in 2 years) it also allows the Rox to dip under the lux tax line and give him around lux tax ~9M usd in payments.

So that's around 34.5M in cash received for trading Allen to the Cavs plus Milwaukee's FRP. That's basically a max contract's worth of money just for Allen lol. In the past Cavs got the 4rth pick just to save Clippers from Baron Davis' 28M salary. Considering that the fact that we got an asset in return at all is good enough IMO.

https://www.espn.com/los-angeles/nba/news/story?id=6153550

 

I am tired of the name calling myself. Individuals really have a hard time with disagreement.

 

@J.R.

 

I see this season as a long preseason since the interruption. Wall, Boogie, Dipo are all East their way back into the game - while the youngens ball out without any pressure to win. I think we have a lot of updide with our vets rookies and picks. Good job stone.

 

https://www.iheart.com/podcast/423-...de/rockets-gm-rafael-stone-joins-us-76761778/

When you were named GM, how did you celebrate?

My wife and I opened up a bottle of wine or something. We’re in weird times. Not a lot of celebrating to be done.

When you sat down with Stephen Silas, what sold you on him?

His mind. Our interview process was long. We talked to a lot of coaches. More to the point, we talked to the guys we liked the most a lot. We talked to him maybe double the amount of everyone else. I personally talked to him double the amount of the rest of my team working on it with me. He’s really smart. A lot of issues we faced, problems we faced can’t be anticipated. Having someone who can think on their feet who is really creative and has a lot of experience is really important. You don’t necessarily need to have HC experience to have a lot of experience, and that was one thing really attractive about him. We’re like the same age. We have a lot of similarities. I was hyper attuned to some of his strengths because I felt maybe they were some of mine and maybe in both cases, they’re easy for others to miss. He was really appealing to me. I felt I was getting someone who had all of the aggression and hunger of someone who hadn’t been given an opportunity while at the same time having maturity and experience of someone who has been around the block several times.

Do you put them in duress situations and see how they respond?

We ask them like “3 seconds on the clock, tied, what do you do? Show me the play.” “Down 1 with 26 seconds left, do you foul?” You run through all those scenarios to see what they’re thinking, how their mind works. You work through rosters. Not just yours but the one they came from. What did they think they did well, did poorly, what do they wish they did differently? You’re just getting a feel for how they’ll handle different situations. You mock out as much as you can. There’s not really right or wrong answers but answers indicative of how they’ll behave on a going forward basis.

3 traits a coach needs to have to succeed?

1) IQ. Someone who really bright. 2) Integrity. You want a good person. And three, you want someone who can meld the two. Talk in a smart way to everyone around them. Integrity to be believable. IQ to be helpful.

Does this team like playing with each other?

They do. They’ve enjoyed each other. They’re still getting to know one another. We had our first practice with this group yesterday. First. Early returns, they do enjoy playing with one another. This team, the signature to the extent we have one of this group of guys, is they play hard. A lot of people like to play with others who play hard. I hope that becomes who we are. We have a collection of guys for whom they are individually so hopefully that’s who we become collectively and I do think people like to play with one another when they feel their teammates are giving their all.

If someone came to you and said, “I just moved here. I haven’t seen the Rockets play. Why are they a championship roster and is it?”

I’d say I don’t know. Especially this year, aside from the Lakers, no one should be saying they’re a championship roster at this point this year, given an abbreviated training camp and every team has had games/practices postponed. No one knows anything about their own team at this point in time. I would fail on that question. That’s something we’re hoping to achieve and then I would say is we’re a team that will get after you. That’s what we’ve been since this group has been together. That’s something I feel comfortable saying about this group. We’re looking to see even more of it and build an identity but early returns, we’re the team you see on the schedule and you groan. That’s who we want to be.

Christian Wood, does he have a ceiling?

No. He’s 25. Played like a season’s worth of NBA basketball. We’re not trying to put a ceiling on any of our players, let alone Christian. He can get better in a lot of areas and already really a top NBA player in some and he’s motivated. Christian’s been great. We’ve been very happy with him thus far.

Oladipo here for the long term?

I hope so. We’ve had a lot of conversations. He’s been a great addition, not only on the court but off the court. Really, really good guy. Our talk has been let’s get to know each other, hopefully this is a wonderful marriage. His first practice with the team yesterday. I think he enjoys his teammates, his coaches. He and Coach Silas were gonna spend time today looking at film. We’re trying to build. Very much hope so, that’s what I would say.

You said you and James were good but what point in the process did you know we have to move James?

Never felt like I had to. I didn’t feel like I had to or we collectively had to, ever I would say. There’s consequences to doing things and consequences to not doing things so I was aware he was at a point in his life, his career where he preferred to be moved. I would answer no. Had we not been made an offer that made sense, we wouldn’t have moved him.

Was there a point at the 11th hour where you thought is this the right move?

The whole time. James is an extraordinary special player. You want to make sure you don’t do something...you want to do the right thing for the organization. By the end, I felt we got to a good place. You want to do the right thing. This is a business of probabilities and percentages and it’s not linear and we’re dealing with people who don’t behave perfectly or predictably so there’s not a lot of certainty in my job. I don’t know that I’d ever feel 100% that this will work out. Some trades are like 100% I’m gonna do it. It doesn’t mean I won’t look back and wish I hadn’t.

Did James tell you why he wanted out?

Yeah, we talked about it.

Can you tell us?

It’s a private conversation. I would say it was very clearly nothing about me, our coaches, the organization, the city. It was about what he perceived to be the right opportunity at the right time. He’s largely said that but that certainly what he said to me. We had more in depth conversations but I’ll keep those private.

More movement before the deadline?

Our goal is to be aggressive, as an organization, as a team and everything. We have been. I don’t know if that means we do anything else or stand pat. We’ll aggressively look at opportunities to upgrade in the short and long term but sometimes upgrades can come from within. It could be a tweak the coaching staff makes that unlocks some guys. Now we have to see how they play. We want to be aggressive, be opportunistic. We acquired Kevin Porter Jr. last week or three days ago, whatever. Two days before that, we had no sense we’d have him. We’re always looking to bring in talented young guys. It’s hard to predict the future.

John Wall’s biggest impact?

John is a great dude. My whole thing with players, until they’re with you, practicing, playing games, spending time with them, you don’t know who they are. That was a pleasant surprise, how much I enjoy John off the court. Sweet man, caring, good guy, really funny, just a good presence. On the court, he’s a true point guard. James is too so it’s not like we didn’t have that but he’s stabilizing for his teammates, super comfortable with the ball, can get his but also distribute, can make the easy read and is a plus defender. He’s a really good basketball player who helps settle us. On this group, it’s useful because he’s probably the one guy who grew up playing the one his whole life. We have a bunch of guards and when he’s not in, we can still get downhill, still make reads. Vic & Eric are good with the ball in their hands but the three coming at you is something we’re excited about.

 

CWood sign and trade not a bball move? Trading Roco for 2 picks not a bball move? Tillman is also the same guy who okd paying Cp3 the max for 4 years and trading for WB. Those didnt turn out great but you cant deny they were made to win games aka bball moves.

I dunno how "cheap" Stone is but you are an A class moron if you dont think he has been doing a great job. Whether you feel like he maximized the Harden trade or not, his FA signings and draft were all money. He even closed a lot of critical deals including dumping WB for Wall and a pick, signing CWood, signing Cousins and Nwaba and even managing to get Dipo to buy in after reports are he'd rather be in Miami.

If you wanna criticize Tillman for being cheap then be my guest but its just dumb to say everything Stone has done so far just been to make $$$.

 

I would have been fine with either Simmons package or Nets, they offer two different paths.

 

I think it's pretty clear Tilman, an owner whose business is hospitality in a pandemic, values cutting costs (Dipo's expiring contact). Stone does what Tilman says, just like Morey.