I've heard plenty about religion. Do you really think I became an atheist without doing a lot of research? Stop assuming you know more than people. Oh by the way, in one thread you said you know 4 atheists (including me and GeneP) and in this thread you claim to have met many in the middle east. Which is it? What proof would you have if god spoke to you other than your own perception? Are you gonna tape record the conversation?
I know we have brains to use, it says so in the Qura'an in case you were wondering. THere is a reason I mentioned very sophistiocated robots is to indicate emotions and other human aspects.
I've spoken to 4 people about atheism, but have met many. In the second instance we were talking about how abundant they are in the ME. Well, there are certain things that my imagination couldn't make up because I simply don't have the brainpower. Furthermore, if God speaks to me, he will inshallah make it abundantly clear. If I'm suffering from a mental condition that distorts everything, then God will forgive me because it was not in my control. Those who believe me choose to believe me.
I am sure Sane is not an extremist in the middle east but an average person. He is just one small example that shows why so many wars in the course of human history hav been started in the name of reglion. I am sure glad humanity for the most part have progress to the point where it is somewhat harder to start another major reglious war, althought if Bush is elected again, it might just happen. mark
This is NOT a holy war, or one of religions, you have to dig deeper than you are currently thinking. This is a clash of cultures, a war of Tribal/Fuedal peoples versus Democratic/Free peoples. Think a minute, look at a lot of the Middle Eastern countries, you have a very very small minority that are rich, and the vast majority is poor. This is a typical Fuedal system and it is what most of the Middle Eastern leaders are fighting to maintain. The Saudi Royal family line thier pockets while so many in thier country starve. Yassar Arafat steals BILLIONS from his own people and encourages them to go and blow themselves up for the idiotic cause. Mohmar Quadafi same thing, rich while the people of his country starve. The Mullahs in Iran stealing the money from the people and blaming the poverty of the majority on the western world. This is NOT about religion it is about people hiding behind religion to keep themselves in power. Is Bush a Christian, well yes he is, but he does not make the laws of the country nor can he make policy, we have checks and balances in place for that here in the form of the Senate, Congress, and the Judicial branch. Those are all one in a fuedal/tribal type system. The Ottoman empire folded because the idea of a few controlling the many does not work forever, people eventually want to control their own thoughts and do not want to be led by the nose hairs of religion. There is a reason that the Western world has the largest economy and has the highest standard of living on the planet, and there is a reason that most of the people in the Middle East live in poverty, because MOST have no option other than to live in poverty where in the West you have far more chances to make it. Sure, there are exceptions and a few Middle Eastern countries take care of their people, but most of those are the real small countries with Oil and they can afford to be generous...heck so could Saudi Arabia, but the greedy King's family wants to keep themselves in power and that is a huge problem. Look I don't like religion, nor do I find it to be particularly helpful other than as a guideline for morality. In my opinion, and that is all any of us have.....I think people should think for themselves and not be led by religious leaders or any leaders that are men or women, as they are corruptable and therefore not to be compeltely trusted. What if it is really the devil talking to you, how would you know the difference? DD
Again, how would you know it was god? What if it was the devil, and you did it thinking it was god? Hmmmmmmmm????? DD
So are you saying that if God can't die, he's limited? That doesn't make sense. It's like the question, "Can God create a rock so big that he can't lift it?" If he can create a rock that big, he's limited because he can't lift the rock. If he can't create a rock that big, he's limited because he can't create a rock that big. Believe it or not, this has been offered time and again as "proof" of the fact that an omnipotent God is impossible. They seem to fail to recognize that if God can keep on creating bigger rocks that he can also lift, that's not exactly a limitation. In fact it says something about his power -- it's limitless. The same goes for the fact that God is eternal. You can view it as a limitation if you choose to do so, but it's faulty logic. It's actually an indication of his limitless power.
if he is limitless then he can do anything, including die. don't you believe jesus = god and that he died?
I have to respond to this. It's totally in-Sane. I guess if the so-called God, I meant Allah, all of a sudden revealing to you that you should go ahead rape your mama, your sister, and chop your daddy's head off, you would not doubt, or even hesitate for a second to do so. You can't be that robotic. I know we are minuscle in front of the Creator, if there is indeed one. As much as we are only human, we still should act on reasons and with sympathy to others. I don't know much about Koran, but my humane side tells me that since it claims to be the messages from the Creator, it should be a book of love, peace, and forgiveness. I sure hope these were the same messages that led you to your religion, your Allah in the first place. How could a reasonable being not question his Master if all of a sudden he or she is told to be mean, hateful, and to kill for no good reasons. How could the true Being expect His subjects to act evilly without any questionings. And this is not a test of faith. I surely don't think blind faith is what the Creator would want from HIS subjects. I belive the Creator, if there is one, should be a God of love, a Allah of peace, and a Buddha of mercy. I rather burn in eternal hell if the truth is indeed otherwise.
islam does allow free will, and wants people to explore and use their brains, thats why some of the greatest early astronomers, mathematitions, and scientists were muslims... and that satan thing, i know its god speaking and not satan because the quran is GODS word, hasnt been changed in 1400+years unlike some other writings, so i believe it is the true word of god. and no mohammad didnt write it, HE WAS ILLITERATE,
were any of them women? i don't think he was talking about the Koran he was talking about Sane's hypothetical conversation with Allah
the koran isnt unreasonable, it doesnt ask you to rape your mamma, sis, chop relatives heads many of the problems ppl have with islam is its modesty, and they think that ppl are being opressed when some decide to follow it(ex women covering up) Muslims were tortured man many years in mecca by the locals and never attacked back, but then when they migrated and were living peacefully in medinah, and the meccans attacked them again , that is when god told the muslims to kill the non believer (in war that is, when he attacks you), god also said, dont kil women, or children, or anyone not in the battlefield...
one of the best historians in islam was a woman,,, her name ayesha, she wrote down accounts of the way of the prophets life (hadeeth) and she spread a lot of knowledge this way, ok so now islam allows the use of a brain, and also lets women do it, so whats next...
I have a question. Some of the greatest early thinkers were muslims - in fact, while Europe was in the Dark Ages - the Islamic world preserved civilization as we know it in this hemisphere. If it hasn't been changed in 1400 years - What happened? What changed to stagnate the intellectual growth of the muslim community in the middle east?
