Adeel, If you can't deal with my opinions about religion than quit trying. I have no time for a religion that : A. Spawns more terrorists than any current faith. B. Outlaws homosexuality and in fact condemns them to death. C. Has an edict to eradicate another group of people all together. D. Was written by a warlord who married a NINE year old little girl. E. Does not crack down on it's own trouble makers (TERRORISTS) F. Has women in a subservient role G. Makes said women wear a scarf on their head and cover their bodies so other men can't see them.... That is enough for me....I just think the Muslim religion is one that is SCREWED UP, and is being used by people to control uneducated, dirt poor folks to further their cause of violence. Yes Christianity also has it's problems, but it is that SAME CHRISTIANITY that is working all over the world trying to help people in Africa, and the Middle East with donations and clinics....I have yet to see other faiths do the same. DD PS....All those dates you pointed out were over ONE FRICKEN THOUSAND YEARS AGO, What the HADES, does that have to do with modern times....oh, I know...that is the times that most of the MUSLIM terrorists want us to go back to...SHEESH !!!!!
this is a direct quote off the website you posted: "Keep in mind neither Christ nor his apostles displayed violence and Christians are supposed to 'turn the other cheek'. This site does not promote illegal violence. What you just read does not promote illegal violence. True Jews and Christians follow man's law unless it directly prevents worship or directly forces personal sin. Jews were prevented from violence under the Roman law. We are prevented from violence under U.S. law." I see a stark contrast between the TEACHINGS of Christ and the TEACHINGS of Mohammed. A very sharp contrast. I'm not saying that people haven't perverted those teachings from time to time...but the idea of killing someone whom they would label a sinner should be foreign to anyone who has read through the New Testament and ascribes it any value. Christ loved sinners so much he went to the Cross for them...I'm no better off than anyone else...my sin is no less repugnant to God than anyone else's. I'm just thankful that God cares about me in spite of myself. And I share that with others not to condemn them...but to share with them the source of my joy. It's not about condemning other people. Think of Christ with the prostitute...as the stoning was about to begin he looked to the Temple authorities and said, "you who is without sin, be the first to throw your stone." They all knew they were guilty in the sight of the Lord as well...as we all are. Do I think acting on homosexual tendencies is a sin? Yes, I do. But I've sinned, too, in my own ways. I've fallen just as far short from the glory of God as anyone else has. God is merciful. Christ showed us that. We're not to respond with hate...but with love. I'm not deserving of God's grace, either. He pours it out anyway. That's why my response is so strong...if I deserved the gift of grace, or thought I did, then it would just be a quid pro quo. It's not. Paul said, "God loved us while we were still sinners." I do nothing to earn God's love. I just respond to His love with my love through obedience. It's all I have to give back.
I know I should not do a full quote of a post, but this post is EXCELLENT...I could not have said it any better. Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe and I would be far from condemning a whole religion or all their followers. But I, personally, have no sympathy for Islam as it is unfortunately lived by many today for exactly the reasons mentioned by DaDakota in his posts.
they are also in positions to produce terrorist more than any other faith , Palestine, Kashmir, etc christianity did it too, just because christians think they have the right to change GODs word doesnt make the fact that their religion too did this. again its the terrorist issue, most muslims dont adhere to this "edict" I thought a mans sexuality is his own desicion, you are being hypocrytical by condemning islams hatred towards homosexualityy, and then judging another mans sexuality they are trying their hardest to do so, but again its like America trying to rid itself of mar1juana in the next few months, its almost impossible, because they can hide the evidence and mingle in society as normal people so easily cultural thing, not religious, AGAIN There are/have been more muslim women in leadership positions than Americans, Pakistan, indonesia, bangladesh. yep a subserviant role. America makes women cover their breasts, while men dont have to cover theirs... also Men aren't allowed to look at women, unless they are related or married to them. Period. They dont even want your help, yet you still impose yourself on those countries. Ex. Iraq, Afghanistan. but countries that have been asking for worldwide help dont get barely any, ex. palestine... pathetic. and i guess you dont know the amount of charity that saudi arabia, kuwait, UAE, etc send to help people in africa, middle east, and asia. Most of that zakat money goes to help the poor, obviously you dont see this because you are hidden behind a whole wall that prevents you from even accepting the good nature in Islam at all. Plus all you have to do is search for it, ofcourse it wont get the same media coverage in america as say the redcross helping out those same countries. Thats jsut obvious, but it doesnt mean that there arent Muslim countries helping others out
How many muslims do yuo personally know? How many terrorists are there that are "muslims", 1 million? 2?... but the rest aren't so dont generalize. How many christians are rapiists, or murderers, how many christians are child molestors. just a fraction of the society. Still not enough to generalize teh whole....
Adeel, Let me know when you are ready to get on that plane out of this country, I will be one of your biggest contributors. DD
But it still doesnt negate teh fact that it is in the religion to punish homosexuals. The fact that you also get a quote that has Jesus(pbuh)saying turn the other cheek doesnt mean it was in regards to this topic. Mohammad(pbuh) also said dont hurt the women or the children, but if there is a adultress in society she will be punished.
and jesus said the opposite, adeel. nothing Christ ever said or did would indicate that he called us to punish others because they're broken with sin. to the contrary, he calls us to reach out to others because of that reason. the whole world is broken, adeel. and God reached out through Christ to bridge the gap of sin. that's where Christian theology comes down. again, i will not argue that some have perverted Christian doctrine to justify their own selfish ambitions. but to look at Christ's life, his words and his ministry and say that there is any justification for that sort of violence is to completely ignore or misread his teachings. Christ made it a point to reach out to the friendless...to those that society casts stones at...and he called on his followers to do the same.
(John 8:3-11) The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, "Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what do you say?" hey were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, "If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her." Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, "Woman, where are they? Has no one condemned you?" "No one, sir," she said. "Then neither do I condemn you," Jesus declared. "Go now and leave your life of sin."
He was making a point that no one is perfect, and should not point fingers at others. Islam says this too, as you must have atleast 3 witnesses before accusing anyone of a crime, surely you dont expect all crimes to be forgiven. If that is what Christianity is all about then well i am stumped...
Well, I know two outspoken ones on this BBS (you and Sane), and either you are total extremist outliers within your religion - which I don't think you would want to call yourself - or, if you are somewhat "middle-of-the-road" muslims, then surely, this would be a reason to be worried - due to the intolerance and totalitarian approach both of you display here.
"Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." These are words of Jesus in his last hour, crucified for a "crime". ------------------- Lord's Prayer or Our Father, the principal Christian prayer that Jesus in the New Testament (Mat. 6.9–13; Luke 11.2–4) taught his followers, beginning, "Our Father in heaven, hallowed be your name." It summarizes Jesus' teaching and stresses the concern of honoring God before that of meeting one's own needs Our Father, who art in heaven, hallowed be thy name; thy kingdom come; thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. Give us this day our daily bread; and forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us; and lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil." We pray that God will be ready forgive our sins only as we are ready to forgive those who offend us in any way ----------------------------- For if you forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. But if you do not forgive men their sins, your Father will not forgive your sins. (Matthew 6:14-15) ----------------------- Then Peter came to Jesus and asked, "Lord, how many times shall I forgive my brother when he sins against me? Up to seven times?" Jesus answered, "I tell you, not seven times, but seventy-seven times. "Therefore, the kingdom of heaven is like a king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants. As he began the settlement, a man who owed him ten thousand talents was brought to him. Since he was not able to pay, the master ordered that he and his wife and his children and all that he had be sold to repay the debt. "The servant fell on his knees before him. 'Be patient with me,' he begged, 'and I will pay back everything.' The servant's master took pity on him, canceled the debt and let him go. "But when that servant went out, he found one of his fellow servants who owed him a hundred denarii. He grabbed him and began to choke him. 'Pay back what you owe me!' he demanded. "His fellow servant fell to his knees and begged him, 'Be patient with me, and I will pay you back.' "But he refused. Instead, he went off and had the man thrown into prison until he could pay the debt. When the other servants saw what had happened, they were greatly distressed and went and told their master everything that had happened. "Then the master called the servant in. 'You wicked servant,' he said, 'I canceled all that debt of yours because you begged me to. Shouldn't you have had mercy on your fellow servant just as I had on you?' In anger his master turned him over to the jailers to be tortured, until he should pay back all he owed. "This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother from your heart." (Matthew 18:21-35) ------------------------------ The following is from "Living Buddha, Living Christ" by Thich Nhat Hanh Understanding Transforms If while we practice we are not aware that the world is suffering, that children are dying of hunger, that social injustice is going on everywhere, we are not practicing mindfulness. We are just trying to escape. But anger is not enough. Jesus told us to love our enemy. "Father, forgive them, for they know not what they do." This teaching helps us know how to look at the person we consider to be the cause of our suffering. If we practice looking deeply into his situation and the causes of how we came to be the way he is now, and if we visualize ourselves as being born in his condition, we may see that we could have become exactly like him. when we do that, compassion arises in us naturally, and we see that the other person is to be helped and not punished. In that moment, our anger transforms itself into the energy of compassion. Suddenly, the one we have been calling our enemy becomes our brother or sister. This is the true teaching of Jesus. Looking deeply is one of the most effective w3ays to transform our anger, prejudices, and discrimination. We practice as an individual, and we also practice as a group. Understanding Ourselves Helps us Understand Others In Buddhism, we speak of salvation by understanding. We see that it is the lack of understanding that creates suffering. Understanding is the power that can liberate us. It is the key that can unlock the door to the prison of suffering. If we do not practice understanding, we do not avail ourselves of the most powerful instrument that can free us and other living beings from suffering. True love is possible only with real understanding. Buddhist meditation -- stopping, calming, and looking deeply -- is to help us understand better. In each of us is a seed of understanding. That seed is God. It is also the Buddha. If you doubt the existence of that seed of understanding, you doubt God and you doubt the Buddha. When Gandhi said that love is the force that can liberate, he meant we have to love our enemy. Even if our enemy is cruel, even if he is crushing us, sowing terror and injustice, we have to love him. This is the message of Jesus. But how can we love our enemy? There is only one way -- to understand him. We have to understand why he is that way, how he has come to be like that, why he does not see things the way we do. Understanding a person brings us the power to love and accept him. And the moment we love and accept him, he ceases to be our enemy. To "love our enemy" is impossible, because the moment we love him, he is no longer our enemy. To love him, we must practice deep looking in order to understand him. If we do, we accept him, we love him, and we also accept and love ourselves. As Buddhists or Christians, we cannot question that understanding is the most important component for transformation. If we talk to each other, if we organize a dialogue, it is because we believe there is a possibility that we can understand the other person better. When we understand another person, we understand ourselves better. And when we understand ourselves better, we understand the other person better, too. Understanding Brings Forgiveness "Forgive us our trespasses, as we forgive those who trespass against us." Everyone makes mistakes. If we are mindful, we see that some of our actions in the past have caused others to suffer, and some actions of others have made us suffer. We want to be forgiving. We want to begin anew. "You, my brother or sister, have wronged me in the past. I now understand that it was because you were suffering and did not see clearly. I no longer feel anger toward you." You cannot force yourself to forgive. Only when you understand what has happened can you have compassion for the other person and forgive him or her. That kind of forgiveness is the fruit of awareness. When you are mindful, you can see the many causes that led the other person to make you suffer, and when you see this, forgiveness and release arise naturally. Putting the teachings of Jesus and the Buddha into practice is always helpful.
great thread. don't mean to take any sides here, but just wanted to chime in. actually, that was the point of the crucifixion, to show that even those that commit the most heinous of crimes (killing the son of God, for instance) can find forgiveness in Jesus. "Father forgive them, for they know not what they do." yes, it is what it's all about. mind blowing, isn't it?
right but that is a policy, not a law... what me and DD were arguing about was the way that how America imposes itself on other countries. Its Americas foreign policy, no way is it the law of the land. Unlike what you are saying, is that they are arguing against the law of their country, and if they cant handle it or are being targeted, leave. I would have said the same thing to Persecuted jews in the holocost times in germany, if germany was exterminating jews, just leave. Unless they wont let you, then everything changes.
I defend my religion. I dont find anything tolatitarian about that. Yes i am intolarent when someone calls my prophet a pedophile and all this other nasty stuff. At least have respect for the dead. Mohammad holds a place in muslims hearts more than that of their parents... How would you like it if I thrusted insults to your mother or your father, or your grandparents. Surely you wouldnt just sit tehre and accept it. Is outlaw intolerant and totalitarian? He is arguing about his sexuality, he cant stand the fact that some group of people are insulting his way of life. I feel the same way when anyone insults islam.
Islam too is tolerant and so was Mohammad (PBUH) some of his famous sayings... "It is better for a leader to make a mistake in forgiving than to make a mistake in punishing." Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1011 "Anyone who believes in God and the Last Day (of Judgment) should not harm his neighbor. Anyone who believes in God and the Last Day should entertain his guest generously. And anyone who believes in God and the Last Day should say what is good or keep quiet." Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 8, Book 73, Number 47. "...you should show courtesy and be cordial with each other, so that nobody should consider himself superior to another nor do him harm." Riyadh-us-Saleheen. Hadith 602. " '...what is the best type of Jihad [struggle].' He answered: 'Speaking truth before a tyrannical ruler.' " Riyadh us-Saleheen Volume 1:195 " 'I and the person who looks after an orphan and provides for him, will be in Paradise like this,' putting his index and middle fingers together." Sahih Al-Bukhari 8:34. 4 and some quotes from the quran http://www.religioustolerance.org/isl_qura.htm "Do not turn away a poor man...even if all you can give is half a date. If you love the poor and bring them near you...God will bring you near Him on the Day of Resurrection." Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1376. "Avoid cruelty and injustice.."Sometimes I enter prayer and I intend to prolong it, but then I hear a child crying, and I shorten my prayer thinking of the distress of the child's mother." Fiqh us-Sunnah, Volume 2, Number 51b..and guard yourselves against miserliness, for this has ruined nations who lived before you." Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Hadith 203. "He who has been a ruler over ten people will be brought shackled on the Day of Resurrection, until the justice (by which he ruled) loosens his chains or tyranny brings him to destruction." Al-Tirmidhi, Hadith 1037 "(Allah) has revealed to me that you should adopt humility so that no one oppresses another." Riyadh-us-Salaheen, Hadith 1589.
because law is something that is written so that your lives are run better, and so that it keeps the society undercontrol. Foreign policy is doing all that in another country. Trying to impose your point of view on another group of people. kinda like that..
